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Anabolic Steroids
good traps exercise
- Thread starter Joe West
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All you need are 3 exercises for your traps.
1.) Barbell row: JS rows are the best. I'm willing to hear other alternatives if there is a good reason though.
2.) Heavy pull: These include deadlifts, stiff legged deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, power cleans, cleans, hang cleans, rack deadlifts, or any other concievable variation.
3.) Upper body verticle pull: These include upright rows, high pulls, shrugs, power shrugs, etc.
If you work hard on JS rows, upright rows, and deadlifts you'll have huge traps.
1.) Barbell row: JS rows are the best. I'm willing to hear other alternatives if there is a good reason though.
2.) Heavy pull: These include deadlifts, stiff legged deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, power cleans, cleans, hang cleans, rack deadlifts, or any other concievable variation.
3.) Upper body verticle pull: These include upright rows, high pulls, shrugs, power shrugs, etc.
If you work hard on JS rows, upright rows, and deadlifts you'll have huge traps.
Power shrug has always been a favorite of mine. It falls into the category of heavy pulling. Basically an abbreviated high pull from the high hang/mid hang position. I like to do them from just above the knees but mid thigh is acceptable. The back is meant for dynamic pulling. Nothing makes it respond like that and the power shrug is really good at upper back/trap development (as well as explosion).
I don't know man. It's certainly an assistance lift rather than core but you can handle major weight. For sports purposes I've actually had people use it from the hang position in place of the hang/power clean. You can move a ton of weight and build a huge amount of explosion without having to deal with getting someone up to speed on the technique side - which is a large part of working with heavy weights in the clean and can mitigate the ability to get fast results from athletes who are unfamiliar or only marginally skilled in it.Freddy said:
This was a fairly popular exercise in the weightroom at a notable Florida football program with a very seasoned and recognized strength coach. I think I remember reading a post about trap and upper back development from JS182 back in the day. He also held the powershrug as possibly the best trap developer. I think he's worked up above 800 from what I recall. It was a good post, I'm surprised it's not in the tribute thread.
EDIT: I knew I wasn't crazy. It was actually in the old tribute thread parts of which were cut and pasted here https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/7203. Scroll down to Topic 13: Shrugs. He's providing instructions from the high hang which is the proper way but if temporarily substituting out something big like the hang clean or power clean until someone can build skills I think the results from a purely athletic standpoint are better from the standard hang position even though less weight will be employed.
"shrugs/traps best exercise for big traps are power shrugs. take a barbell, hold it in front of you, SLIGHTLY bend knees and bend VERY SLIGHTLY at the hip. now violently extend the whole body and shrug. its basically a cheat shrug. try to hold for a split second at the top... you wont be able to but try. this exercise should be done with heavy weight. personally, ive used 800+ lbs for 10 reps. use as heavy a weight as you possibly can and still get a full shrug at the top. dont load up the bar all the way the first few sessions, or youll likely die. give yourself 3 or 4 sessions to work up to max weight"
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Madcow2 said:
I'm not sure what you're point is. I listed it above as one of the options, and its of course a fine one at that. You're arguing with yourself.
I simply said you can't catagorize it as the same kind of movement as a deadlift or a powerclean...I mean is this even debateable? The ROM is like a fraction of the other two.
Its definitely a great trap move...again, as I clearly stated in my previous post. Can you supplement it for a good deadlift or powerclean? No.
And who can't learn how to deadlift or rack pull? My god I've taught total newbies in an afternoon.
On a different subject, if we DO want to argue which is the absolute BEST trap move, then its probably the JS row. When asked how to build large traps this is the responce JS would always give, not only based upon his own lab work, but also the experience he's had with his athletes. JS likes powershrugs as well, in fact he too can do 800+ for sets of 10+ reps as you said. The JS row is just a better movement, and he's said so in the past.
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I wasn't really arguing at all just conversing on the topic. I did misinterpret your above comment though in that I thought you were saying the PS wasn't as good as the PC/DL as a specific trap developer. For core and full body development it doesn't cut it although performing the movement from the traditional hang position simulates and overloads the 2nd pull in the clean fairly well and serves as a good work around to build explosion (which was more of an aside - deads and rack pulls IMO don't translate as well to explosion as the OLs/variants and getting someone to the point where they can handle maximum weights in the clean takes time which isn't always available).
That said, the JS row is a great exercise but I'm not convinced it's the best dedicated trap developer or even close to the top. I don't believe that the 90 degree angle is going to facilitate maximal recruitment of the traps. For the lats, it's incredible and I'd certainly be interested in what the EMG data revealed about trap involvement but taking a non-scientific approach the traps pull up and back relative to the torso. If you position the torso at 90 degrees to the floor, you are at best only pulling back against gravity and the range of motion/activation is going to be very resitricted where the traps are concerned. Looking at the power shrug (or clean or deadlift), the torso is more upright and able to work against gravity more advantageously where the traps are concerned. Here, you will get the full recruitment as the movements pull up and back.
If some data is available or if he's specifically spoken to trap recruitment in the JS Row, I'd be very interested but I don't think my logic is failing here where the JS Row is concerned. The angle and exercise activates the lats optimally but the activation of the traps is going to be sub-optimal by a significant degree. If there's anything out there on it and you could point me in the right direction, I'd very much appreciate it.
That said, the JS row is a great exercise but I'm not convinced it's the best dedicated trap developer or even close to the top. I don't believe that the 90 degree angle is going to facilitate maximal recruitment of the traps. For the lats, it's incredible and I'd certainly be interested in what the EMG data revealed about trap involvement but taking a non-scientific approach the traps pull up and back relative to the torso. If you position the torso at 90 degrees to the floor, you are at best only pulling back against gravity and the range of motion/activation is going to be very resitricted where the traps are concerned. Looking at the power shrug (or clean or deadlift), the torso is more upright and able to work against gravity more advantageously where the traps are concerned. Here, you will get the full recruitment as the movements pull up and back.
If some data is available or if he's specifically spoken to trap recruitment in the JS Row, I'd be very interested but I don't think my logic is failing here where the JS Row is concerned. The angle and exercise activates the lats optimally but the activation of the traps is going to be sub-optimal by a significant degree. If there's anything out there on it and you could point me in the right direction, I'd very much appreciate it.
Madcow2 said:
Haha, well, I'm kinda confused here...on the one hand, you believe JS in regards to powershrugs, but you don't in regards to the JS row.
Well, I know you're referensing his "best of" post above, but what you can't get a feel from that conversation is the context of that discussion.
You see, JS and I, along with a few others discussed that particular topic at length a couple of times. JS and I also discussed it privately as well...what you see in the "best of" thread is just the summary of all that was said.
When JS said the powershrug was the best trap movement, I recall that he was assuming that the athlete was already working hard on rows and deadlifts (or powercleans).
That being the case, then he felt the powershrug was the best choice for specifically building up the traps...but not at the EXCLUSION of the rows or the big compound pulls.
I remember one specific discussion we had 3 years ago about one particular training session he had. He was unfortunately away from his regular gym, and training in a room full of "mullets" (an oldschool term for weak-pussies). As I recall I believe JS said he was training some overhead pressing movements...probably some push presses and jerks, as well as doing some rows.
One of the younger, skinnier mullets wanted to know how to get his traps big...and of course he had to ask the 370 pound freak doing reps with 400 pounds on rows. The young mullet explained that he was going crazy doing all kinds of shrugs, but that his traps still wouldn't grow. JS explained to him that if he would work hard on rows for a while, he'd get the traps he wanted.
Again, JS thought powershrugs were a great movement. But he didn't intend for them to be done at the exclusion of rows or compound pulls.
Yes, you can use a shit-load of weight doing powershrugs. But is that always the key to growing a muscle? Are the guys with huge triceps just doing rack-lockouts...or are they doing full ROM pressing movements too?
The point is, if you want big traps you CANNOT escape doing an exerise from each of the 3 catagories I listed above. And the nature of powershrugs is that they are definitely in the 3rd catagory, not the 2nd.
I think we are suffering from a case of internet misconnect - where 2 people type paragraph after paragraph only to realize they are talking about exactly the same thing.
I'm not disbelieving anything JS has said about either the row or the shug but merely the statement that the row is the best trap developer - and you did say specifically that in post 9 final paragraph and attribute the statement to him leaving out the key caveate of the shitty training which threw me. And given the wording of that statement I did disagree with it regardless of the source for fairly logical reasons, of course the caveate being I assume person X has a decent training program and isn't neglecting basic movements that will stop one's progress dead in the water.
What you said just above is exactly what I have been saying (obviously unsuccessfully which is why we've been chasing our tails). I assume reasonable training programs where someone has been rowing, pulling, squating and pressing. I'm not in any way suggesting otherwise. If a guy has big gaping holes in his routine that prevent him from developing, all the specialized work in the world is worthless (proven on a daily basis by the noodlearms in the gym who only use the racks for their curl bars). But under the assumption of a decent program (which is generally reasonable athough in dealing with BBers is more often than not erroneous), power shrugs are a great choice and may be the best available.
I think we may have diverged regarding using a lower position similar to the hang clean to train explosive power (like a heavy high pull from the hang done to full extension and no higher). This isn't a permanent solution or meant to replace a core lift - and obviously the athlete in question has to have been on a reasonable training program beforehand which should continue throughout and afterward. This is a short term patch that allows progress in building explosive power until better technique can be taught for handling heavy weight in the clean (an exercise where technique is usually lacking and which takes time to bring an athelte up to handling good weight) and it can also be utilized afterward as an assistence lift periodically when the need arrises as it really does produce some great results when there is specific need. I don't think I ever once said that the shrugs on a permanent or even temporary basis were a complete substitute for basic back training.
So I'm thinking we finally caught our tails here and have been saying essentially the same thing the whole time - which is a shame in a way because no new information was brought to the table for either of us and we've typed the equivalent of a fairly nice essay covering the topic (although I'm sure maybe someone else might benefit). Sometimes I think it takes 100X the effort to communicate on one of these forums.
Anyway, it was a good talk if decidely inefficient on word count.
I'm not disbelieving anything JS has said about either the row or the shug but merely the statement that the row is the best trap developer - and you did say specifically that in post 9 final paragraph and attribute the statement to him leaving out the key caveate of the shitty training which threw me. And given the wording of that statement I did disagree with it regardless of the source for fairly logical reasons, of course the caveate being I assume person X has a decent training program and isn't neglecting basic movements that will stop one's progress dead in the water.
What you said just above is exactly what I have been saying (obviously unsuccessfully which is why we've been chasing our tails). I assume reasonable training programs where someone has been rowing, pulling, squating and pressing. I'm not in any way suggesting otherwise. If a guy has big gaping holes in his routine that prevent him from developing, all the specialized work in the world is worthless (proven on a daily basis by the noodlearms in the gym who only use the racks for their curl bars). But under the assumption of a decent program (which is generally reasonable athough in dealing with BBers is more often than not erroneous), power shrugs are a great choice and may be the best available.
I think we may have diverged regarding using a lower position similar to the hang clean to train explosive power (like a heavy high pull from the hang done to full extension and no higher). This isn't a permanent solution or meant to replace a core lift - and obviously the athlete in question has to have been on a reasonable training program beforehand which should continue throughout and afterward. This is a short term patch that allows progress in building explosive power until better technique can be taught for handling heavy weight in the clean (an exercise where technique is usually lacking and which takes time to bring an athelte up to handling good weight) and it can also be utilized afterward as an assistence lift periodically when the need arrises as it really does produce some great results when there is specific need. I don't think I ever once said that the shrugs on a permanent or even temporary basis were a complete substitute for basic back training.
So I'm thinking we finally caught our tails here and have been saying essentially the same thing the whole time - which is a shame in a way because no new information was brought to the table for either of us and we've typed the equivalent of a fairly nice essay covering the topic (although I'm sure maybe someone else might benefit). Sometimes I think it takes 100X the effort to communicate on one of these forums.
Anyway, it was a good talk if decidely inefficient on word count.
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