Great response to certain DIM brand

[JustOne]

There a slightly diffrent formula.

Bioresponse:
Vitamin E - 9 IU - 30% (as d-alpha tocopheryl succinate)
BioResponse-DIM complex - 100 mg (patented, enhanced bioavailability complex containing 25% diindolylmethane) starch, diindolylmethane, natural vitamin E, phosphatidylcholine, silica
Protectamins - 100 mg spinach powder, cabbage powder, concentrated broccoli powder
Other Ingredients: Cellulose, Gelatin, chlorophyll.

Indoplex:
DIM 120mg
modified food starch, 25% diindolylmethane (DIM), d-alpha tocopheryl succinate, silicon dioxide, and phosphatidylcholine
other ingrediants: calcium carbonate, modified cellulose gum, modified cellulose, titanium dioxide color, lecithin, and carnauba wax.

Diffrence
Bioresponse: + 100 mg spinach powder, cabbage powder, concentrated broccoli powder, Gelatin, chlorophyll.
Indoplex: + calcium carbonate, modified cellulose gum, titanium dioxide color, lecithin, and carnauba wax.

Something has to be making the diffrence. Otherwise it is a placebo effect.

 

[chasingtime]

There a slightly diffrent formula.

Bioresponse:
Vitamin E - 9 IU - 30% (as d-alpha tocopheryl succinate)
BioResponse-DIM complex - 100 mg (patented, enhanced bioavailability complex containing 25% diindolylmethane) starch, diindolylmethane, natural vitamin E, phosphatidylcholine, silica
Protectamins - 100 mg spinach powder, cabbage powder, concentrated broccoli powder
Other Ingredients: Cellulose, Gelatin, chlorophyll.

Indoplex:
DIM 120mg
modified food starch, 25% diindolylmethane (DIM), d-alpha tocopheryl succinate, silicon dioxide, and phosphatidylcholine
other ingrediants: calcium carbonate, modified cellulose gum, modified cellulose, titanium dioxide color, lecithin, and carnauba wax.

Diffrence
Bioresponse: + 100 mg spinach powder, cabbage powder, concentrated broccoli powder, Gelatin, chlorophyll.
Indoplex: + calcium carbonate, modified cellulose gum, titanium dioxide color, lecithin, and carnauba wax.

Something has to be making the diffrence. Otherwise it is a placebo effect.

from what ive read the active ingredient "dim from bioresponse" is identicle in both. am i wrong?

 

[pmgamer18]

this makes absolutely no sense to me. they are the exact same bioresponse product from the exact same manufacturer. isnt that like saying i put one advil in a red bottle and one in a blue bottle and the one in the blue bottle is the only one that worked. im not trying to be smart here but can someone explain why this would be?

The stuff they added to the Indolplex/DIM by 1 DIM by Nature's Way that I and others that tried it think is why it does not work. The formula is changed when you add stuff to it. Some suppliers think they can get to to buy there junck by adding more junk to it. So you feel your getting more for your money. Go by the crap don't take are word for it.

 

[chasingtime]

The stuff they added to the Indolplex/DIM by 1 DIM by Nature's Way that I and others that tried it think is why it does not work. The formula is changed when you add stuff to it. Some suppliers think they can get to to buy there junck by adding more junk to it. So you feel your getting more for your money. Go by the crap don't take are word for it.

pmgamer18, take it easy. i already bought the indolplex you suggested. and i already explained that i wasnt trying to be smart i just dont understand...

 

[pmgamer18]

pmgamer18, take it easy. i already bought the indolplex you suggested. and i already explained that i wasnt trying to be smart i just dont understand...

chasingtime it's not you it's how many times I have gone over this in the last 2 yrs. I just got a post from on of the guys at the Yahoo group I work at this poor guy would not try Indolplex/DIM for his high E2 it was over 40 his Dr. told him he will not treat it his E2 was in range. This poor guy went from gels to shots I told him going to shots it will spick his E2 doing a 200mg shot every 2 weeks and he will feel like shit not better. So he does the shots and he feels so dam bad his wife took him to the ER. They said he was having a panic attack "no shit" and sent him home. I again told him the Indolplex/DIM is over the counter and you have nothing to lose by trying it. This shit went around and around him going back on gels now 3 months have gone by he is off work and no sick pay.

Today he posted that he got the Indolplex/DIM and started on it 3 days ago and this morning he has wood for the first time in over 15 yrs. And he feels much better. He told me in the post he should have listened and got the Indolplex/DIM not the crap that he tried that was cheaper. You have no idea how many times I go through this. I tell someone to try Indoplex/DIM someone will post they tried DIM not the Indolplex/DIM I am talking about and that it does not work. DIM is not a med you need a script for and everyone is on the band wagon selling it adding this or that to it and it's junk. This is why I call this a pissing contest people need to read the posts better every time I post to try Indolplex/DIM I put in the post that I tried a lot of brands that did not work and would put a link in the post of the brand that dose work. I did not find this brand someone told me about it. It has been passed down from on guy to the other for some yrs. now.

I hate to see someone suffer like this guy did at yahoo 3 dam months and off work to boot. Maybe I just should keep my mouth shut and just tell guys if there Dr. will not treat high E2 to just find a new one.

 

[pmgamer18]

We need to make this thread a Sticky.

 

[chasingtime]

We need to make this thread a Sticky.

i appreciate your frustration. thanks for taking the time to explain, t

 

[JustOne]

we need to all write a complaint to the medical association.
I am sick of doctors acting like they were never taught about TRT or off-label medication in med school, I actually had a returned call from the endocrinology department from a hospital say they have never prescribed nolvadex for gynocemastia before!
And before starting TRT and 2 days before starting Zinc as an "anything I can take now to help will do" aproach, I went to the ed with symptoms of a stroke had a CT scan of my head etc.

I didnt tell my GP about it with the follow up letter cause I know he wont understand, only after starting the zinc did I know the problem was hormonal and not a tumour/hemorrage.

Even my own cousin whos a dr didnt understand when I was talking to him about needing HRT, he actually almost talked me out of it telling me it can induce psychosis, then 2 days ago I get a GP tell me TRT wont interfere with any medications at all because its a naturally present hormone.

wtf is wrong with doctors, I feel bad because I used to have respect for doctors but now that "Dr." infront of there name means shit to me, it actually lowers my respect for them.
If I was ever in a bar and someone was bragging about being a doctor I would probly knock them out and tell them THATS FOR MEDICAL ETHICS.

I have met a lot of types of people for my age, all the extremes in almost every aspect you can imagine. And the sorts of lies I get from doctors are that I would hear come out of the mouth of only a junky.

The only doctors I have respect for are the ones that post here and Dr. John, I hope HeadDoc can shed some light onto my problem because it takes a lot for me to develop an anti-social attitude, hell I am on bail(thanks pre-TRT hormonally induced anger problems) and I still dont have anything against cops.

 

[Cynical Simian]

This is getting a bit off-topic, but I think it's just a matter of finding a doctor, whether he/she is in anti-aging, endocrinology, urology, or anything else, who's familiar and comfortable with TRT. I pretty much did that by following the advice in the "how to find a doctor" sticky. I called around to the offices of various endos in my insurance directory and asked whether testosterone replacement for men was a regular part of their practices. For most, the answer was no, but when I asked whether they knew of any who did specialize in it, one guy's name kept being mentioned. That's the doc I'm now seeing, and I haven't had any issues yet.

Also, returning to the topic, I've ordered the DIM and TMG brands Phil recommends and should receive them around the time of my next labs (~2 weeks from now). I assume my E2 will have increased from its pre-TRT level, which was just above the bottom of the normal range, and the magnitude of the increase will dictate whether or not I decide to start using DIM.

 

[pmgamer18]

I hear ya man not much one can do there only human and all one can do is find someone's Dr. that is working for them. There are a lot of Dr.'s out there that are dam good you just need to find them.
I went 20 some yrs in the blind just going from Dr. to Dr. if you don't know about your problem how the hell do you know if your seeing a bad one. So I tell everyone go to sites and read old posts learn as much as you can. The first place I went to for help was WebMD at this site I found this one.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hypogonadism2/
When I joined and could post and read I was there for 12 to 14 hrs. a day reading links in there links section and going back and reading old posts. I learned as much as I could and started at my Dr. to check this or that he would say E2 there is no such problem like this for men. Then I would show him print outs and get in his face saying we have tried everything now lets try this so check the dam E2. It was my learning off the web that helped me. It's to bad others don't do this I can tell they don't by there posting. There is a ton of stuff that needs to be learned off these sites all you have to do is a search at this site or the one above and read. Then go to your Dr. armed and if he blows you off you need to find a new better Dr.

we need to all write a complaint to the medical association.
I am sick of doctors acting like they were never taught about TRT or off-label medication in med school, I actually had a returned call from the endocrinology department from a hospital say they have never prescribed nolvadex for gynocemastia before!
And before starting TRT and 2 days before starting Zinc as an "anything I can take now to help will do" aproach, I went to the ed with symptoms of a stroke had a CT scan of my head etc.

I didnt tell my GP about it with the follow up letter cause I know he wont understand, only after starting the zinc did I know the problem was hormonal and not a tumour/hemorrage.

Even my own cousin whos a dr didnt understand when I was talking to him about needing HRT, he actually almost talked me out of it telling me it can induce psychosis, then 2 days ago I get a GP tell me TRT wont interfere with any medications at all because its a naturally present hormone.

wtf is wrong with doctors, I feel bad because I used to have respect for doctors but now that "Dr." infront of there name means shit to me, it actually lowers my respect for them.
If I was ever in a bar and someone was bragging about being a doctor I would probly knock them out and tell them THATS FOR MEDICAL ETHICS.

I have met a lot of types of people for my age, all the extremes in almost every aspect you can imagine. And the sorts of lies I get from doctors are that I would hear come out of the mouth of only a junky.

The only doctors I have respect for are the ones that post here and Dr. John, I hope HeadDoc can shed some light onto my problem because it takes a lot for me to develop an anti-social attitude, hell I am on bail(thanks pre-TRT hormonally induced anger problems) and I still dont have anything against cops.

 

[JanSz]

This is getting a bit off-topic, but I think it's just a matter of finding a doctor, whether he/she is in anti-aging, endocrinology, urology, or anything else, who's familiar and comfortable with TRT. I pretty much did that by following the advice in the "how to find a doctor" sticky. I called around to the offices of various endos in my insurance directory and asked whether testosterone replacement for men was a regular part of their practices. For most, the answer was no, but when I asked whether they knew of any who did specialize in it, one guy's name kept being mentioned. That's the doc I'm now seeing, and I haven't had any issues yet.
Also, returning to the topic, I've ordered the DIM and TMG brands Phil recommends and should receive them around the time of my next labs (~2 weeks from now). I assume my E2 will have increased from its pre-TRT level, which was just above the bottom of the normal range, and the magnitude of the increase will dictate whether or not I decide to start using DIM.

Why do not you start a new thred "Doctors we use", and post this doctor's name, phone and zip code.
Hopefully others will do the same, then we can have a pool of names that is worth keeping.
That may became a sticky when list is long enough.

 

[JustOne]

Sounds good. Your idea you should start it.