HCG times and dosage

[IronBrothers]

Hey, Ive been talking to a lot of people lately about hcg, and been getting a mixed bag of responses. Some people never run it and have great gains, and some people take it at the beginning of the cycle, and some take it 4weeks in.
500iu/wk seems to be the common dosage. When would you personally start hcg in your cycle.

 

[mands]

Depends on what you are personally running and how long you are running it.

mands

 

[Docd187123]

HCG isn't taken for the gains. It's taken to maintain testicular sensitivity to LH as well as backfill P450SCC pathways according to Dr. Crisler.

I would opt to use it from day 1 up until a few days before beginning PCT.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

HCG isn't taken for the gains. It's taken to maintain testicular sensitivity to LH as well as backfill P450SCC pathways according to Dr. Crisler.

I would opt to use it from day 1 up until a few days before beginning PCT.

WTF!!!

 

[Docd187123]

WTF!!!

Ok,

“Bodybuilders and athletes may also administer Human Chorionic Gonadotropin throughout a steroid cycle, in an effort to avoid testicular atrophy and the resulting reduced ability to respond to LH stimulus. In effect, this practice is used to avoid the problem of testicular atrophy, instead of trying to correct it later on when the cycle is over.”

And I'm fully aware of the discord between you and Crisler regarding HCG.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

HCG isn't taken for the gains. It's taken to maintain testicular sensitivity to LH as well as backfill P450SCC pathways according to Dr. Crisler.

I would opt to use it from day 1 up until a few days before beginning PCT.

Ok,

“Bodybuilders and athletes may also administer Human Chorionic Gonadotropin throughout a steroid cycle, in an effort to avoid testicular atrophy and the resulting reduced ability to respond to LH stimulus. In effect, this practice is used to avoid the problem of testicular atrophy, instead of trying to correct it later on when the cycle is over.”

And I'm fully aware of the discord between you and Crisler regarding HCG.

The latter makes some sense. I do not know what "resulting reduced ability to respond to LH stimulus" means.

The former does not.

This has nothing to do with discord. This is science.

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Ok,

“Bodybuilders and athletes may also administer Human Chorionic Gonadotropin throughout a steroid cycle, in an effort to avoid testicular atrophy and the resulting reduced ability to respond to LH stimulus. In effect, this practice is used to avoid the problem of testicular atrophy, instead of trying to correct it later on when the cycle is over.”

And I'm fully aware of the discord between you and Crisler regarding HCG.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Michael Scally MD]

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Maybe, you can explain what "resulting reduced ability to respond to LH stimulus" means.

 

[kawilt]

I am not familiar with this subject, but it is my understanding that it can or will shut down your body's natural production of testosterone. Does it come back after ceasing taking it? Can it have permanent effects after long term use by itself? In other words what's the down side?

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Maybe, you can explain what "resulting reduced ability to respond to LH stimulus" means.

To be entirely truthful, im not sure exactly what the author meant with that specific portion of his statement. But i most certainly agree with the content and message that hCG used DURING a steroid cycle helps to prevent testicular atrophy and is best used on cycle, rather than post cycle.

 

[Docd187123]

The latter makes some sense. I do not know what "resulting reduced ability to respond to LH stimulus" means.

The former does not.

This has nothing to do with discord. This is science.

I believe what Llewellyn is saying is that due to the atrophy experienced when the HPTA is suppressed, the sensitivity to LH drops. Maintaining testicular volume would retain some of the sensitivity.

If the latter make sense and the former does not than my re-wording is to blame.

Yes both sides claim science. I've seen several of your posts on the topic which has caused me to question that claim but it's something that I keep looking into whenever I have time. I beleive you also say that desensitization of the Leydig cells due to excessive HCG hasn't been seen in clinical practice or something along those lines?

 

[IronBrothers]

Ahem. Lots of smart people in here, which is good. But I wasnt asking the scientific breakdown. Just wanted to know about which time to start and end.
Ill be running test to testicular atrophy may be present. The cycle is 12 weeks. Takes aprox 3-4 weeks for this ester to drop from the system from last injection.
Anyone running it on their cycle feel free to share. Im a sponge.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

 

[heady muscle]

View attachment 20013

LMAO and all other extremities (yes, may ass is an extremity)! I wanna be a doctor too! Love you Scally! You really know how to make a point!

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Ahem. Lots of smart people in here, which is good. But I wasnt asking the scientific breakdown. Just wanted to know about which time to start and end.
Ill be running test to testicular atrophy may be present. The cycle is 12 weeks. Takes aprox 3-4 weeks for this ester to drop from the system from last injection.
Anyone running it on their cycle feel free to share. Im a sponge.

Sorry man, Scally got us all wound up..lol.

Begin your hCG on cycle @ 250iu twice per week up to a few days before you begin PCT. If you only have a 5k vial and funds are tight, you can back track 10 weeks from when you plan to begin PCT and start there.

Another shortcut is to add prop the last two to three weeks and drop the enth at the same time. This will assist in a quicker and often smoother transition to recovery phase (PCT)

 

[IronBrothers]

Awesome. Thanks bro! Ill probably lay off the prop though. I see prop at like 100mg/ml, and to shove 5 ml of prob into my ass every week doesnt sound too appetizing right now haha. Ill be using a orvitrelle 6500iu hcg pen, so I think Ill be good.

 

[stang4u2nv]

In my own practice aka cycles i am noticing more testicular atrophy at twice a week than 3 times a week for example. Yes the total number units remains the same i am just starting to inject sub q 3 times a weeks. My testes have increased a good amount in size and remain that way till the next injection. So 150-175iu's per injection 3 times a week works for me. This is actual experimenting on myself not some book theory. Take it for what is worth.

 

[Northern Nutrition]

In my own practice aka cycles i am noticing more testicular atrophy at twice a week than 3 times a week for example. Yes the total number units remains the same i am just starting to inject sub q 3 times a weeks. My testes have increased a good amount in size and remain that way till the next injection. So 150-175iu's per injection 3 times a week works for me. This is actual experimenting on myself not some book theory. Take it for what is worth.

Strang4u2nv, thanks for bringing this up - this is a very important point. The 3x week protocol is practiced often and the results speak for themselves.

If anyone has included the twice per week protocol and feel they are NOT experiencing positive results, plan B should be to increase frequency first, not volume. This often produces the expected results without having to increase volume.

Ex: if your hCG protocol is currently 250iu 2/wk and your testes still remain atrophied, then reduce the injections (volume) to 175iu but increase the frequency (3/wk). This often produces results without having to significantly increase total weekly volume. (3x175=525)

Before increasing total weekly volume, try increasing frequency first. I think some of you may be surprised.

 

[heady muscle]

I am still looking for a good domestic for quality hcg if anybody has info.
Thanks