MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Hcg
- Thread starter BigRagu
- Start date
Sonny
New Member
Ragu:
If you turn this into a pissing match between you and him, you have a lot more to lose (IMO) than he does. He's not the one with a medical condition that is actively seeking treatment.
At least find another doc before you set this bridge on fire.
My 2 cents...
Sonny
If you turn this into a pissing match between you and him, you have a lot more to lose (IMO) than he does. He's not the one with a medical condition that is actively seeking treatment.
At least find another doc before you set this bridge on fire.
My 2 cents...
Sonny
my testosterone is approved for another 12 months...his nurse just did it for me...... and there is no way i would go back and see him how he was with me on the phone.... i talked to him in a normal manner and he started to get all crazy and even got very cocky with me (i try and get things done in a nice way first.. easier that way)..he was even yelled at me at one point..... i think he felt challenged because he is the doctor and i'm the patient and i was telling him how to treat men.....like he knew anyway (i might not be a genius at this stuff i know how to treat it better then he does).....this is a guy who wanted to put me on 150 mg shot every 3 weeks and wants to check my prostate every blood test when im 23.....then said o0o0 your test is 469 it looks good...........
cpeil2--Your doctor went to one of our conferences, heard my lecture, and STILL doesn't get it?
If he requires a study to prove everything, he is in with the wrong crowd. The "wrong crowd" pertains to physicians in general, not just the Anti-Aging Medicine crowd.
Nearly ALL medicine is practiced based upon anecdotal experience. It is a key point which should not be missed--worse yet dismissed--by clinicians. IOW, for EVERY treatment a doctor administers, ask him/her for a study to prove that is how to do it. They will promptly usher you through the front door. You might as well ask them to detail the Kreb's Cycle again.
Beyond that, he should be smart enough to think about what it is I say, and see the logic in it. If not, then he should get himslef up to speed on the science involved. All backed up, of course, by real-life experiences with literally hundreds of patients.
Ragu--Your experience with your Endo is an all too common sad story. They seem know less about TRT than even the PCP's do. And yet thye are the most closed minded, and hard to train. Strange, but true.
If he requires a study to prove everything, he is in with the wrong crowd. The "wrong crowd" pertains to physicians in general, not just the Anti-Aging Medicine crowd.
Nearly ALL medicine is practiced based upon anecdotal experience. It is a key point which should not be missed--worse yet dismissed--by clinicians. IOW, for EVERY treatment a doctor administers, ask him/her for a study to prove that is how to do it. They will promptly usher you through the front door. You might as well ask them to detail the Kreb's Cycle again.
Beyond that, he should be smart enough to think about what it is I say, and see the logic in it. If not, then he should get himslef up to speed on the science involved. All backed up, of course, by real-life experiences with literally hundreds of patients.
Ragu--Your experience with your Endo is an all too common sad story. They seem know less about TRT than even the PCP's do. And yet thye are the most closed minded, and hard to train. Strange, but true.
well i'm going to have to get it off of the street for now....being a bb that isn't too hard....... my uro is cool with it and is going to run all the tests needed to make sure everything is in line while taking it ....the slin pins is a different story ... going to be a pain to get those........ i still need to find a dam doc because i can't do this forever....... plus my insurance would cover it if i had a dam script.........i swear i'm 2 seconds away from hauling azz up to lansing mi...........
SWALE said:
He uses Cenegenics' protocol - elephant doses of hCG as monotherapy. During the brief time that I used hCG, he prescribed 5000 IU q week. The first dose was fine, but after that, I had such problems with it that I stopped it after only three weeks. Also, by that time I had begun reading your methods and realized that the dose was much too high. I don't understand why he dismissed it the way he did.
Doc Swale is avail by appt.. See if he could see you on a weekend or something and just drive up. I live a bit away from his office and found him most accomidating of the time I was able to come in. He really is a great guy and having a Doc that knows what he is doing is essential.
Just buck up and make a trip, you'll be glad you did.
Just my thoughts,
Pooka
Just buck up and make a trip, you'll be glad you did.
Just my thoughts,
Pooka
SWALE said:
Actually, Swale, now that I'm recalling the conversation with my doc, I remember that his objection to your method was the same as so many guys who post here have encountered from other, more conventional docs. They're on board with TRT, they can even handle using hCG as monotherapy - but using them together? Too much like PCT - that's AAS!!!
Destructive is a far better word for it. Wasteful, too.cpeil2 said:
Excessive HCG shots over long periods of time will desensitize the testilces from LH and/or HCG. See Medline articles 6210708 and 3583230. In other words, excessive HCG shots will CAUSE primary hypogonadism.
Also, excessive HCG shots cause supraphysiologic T and E2 levels. And we know what that does to you.
Your doctor is an ignorant moron. Lose him as fast as you can.
I am with you on this one David so many men are being treated by Dr.'s that just don't know. And it is not Rocket Science it just does not make sense for a Dr. not to bone up on this. All most know is what the drug reps tell them. If we can go on the web and learn about this why can't the Dr.'s. I gave SWALE's Protocol to a friend to show to his Dr. and the dum Dr. would not look at it. WTF is that.
Phil
Phil
thefantom1
New Member
Just curious..if your Uro is cool with it...why doesn't he prescribe the HCG and pins for you??? I might of missed something here....
I cannot for the life of me understand how a doctor could object to adding a second medication to a therapy. After all, they do it all the time. Ask him if he ever uses two (or more) medications to treat hypertension, or diabetes, or even infections.
And we are not talking about, for instance, the polypharmacy so many physicians get their patients into. This is especially true for senior citizens who may find themselves on LITERALLY 15 different meds.
You guys help me refine my arguements.
And we are not talking about, for instance, the polypharmacy so many physicians get their patients into. This is especially true for senior citizens who may find themselves on LITERALLY 15 different meds.
You guys help me refine my arguements.
Good point, Swale.SWALE said:
It's clearly a matter of being outside his comfort zone. Since he's not experienced in treating with TRT, two meds is just too much complication for him to deal with.
My best friend's wife is a doctor. I've had many discussions with her about HRT. At one point, she started to develop an HRT practice. But when she realized how involved the follow up care is she backed away. It's much easier to say, "take this pill and call me in a week."
Also, multitherapy with diabetes, hypertension, etc. is mainstream.
No Swale, you haven't gotten to the heart of the matter. Of course docs combine agents all the time. Just not these two particular ones. A polytherapy combining T and hCG, even though it is done with a completely legitimate therapeutic goal just looks too much like PCT or an AAS stack to them. Sure, they stack a diuretic, an ACE inhibitor and a beta blocker to treat hypertension all the time. But that doesn't resemble something that is widely considered to be substance abuse.
There's kind of a slippery slope between appropriate HRT and AAS. DavidZ is right when he attributes the problem to it being out of a doc's comfort zone. But I think the source of the discomfort is more a result of wanting to avoid that slippery slope than because they aren't capable of managing the patient.
I have a friend who has AIDS. He doesn't have wasting, but it is a constant struggle for him to maintain his weight. His HIV doc has reminded over and over again that he just needs to say the word and he can have deca and T to help him maintain muscle mass. He won't do it, even though it could save his life because, to him, it's . . . AAS! Go figure. You've got something similar going on with these docs who get crazy when you try to talk to them about combining T and hCG.
There's kind of a slippery slope between appropriate HRT and AAS. DavidZ is right when he attributes the problem to it being out of a doc's comfort zone. But I think the source of the discomfort is more a result of wanting to avoid that slippery slope than because they aren't capable of managing the patient.
I have a friend who has AIDS. He doesn't have wasting, but it is a constant struggle for him to maintain his weight. His HIV doc has reminded over and over again that he just needs to say the word and he can have deca and T to help him maintain muscle mass. He won't do it, even though it could save his life because, to him, it's . . . AAS! Go figure. You've got something similar going on with these docs who get crazy when you try to talk to them about combining T and hCG.
