Help Critique my training

[Joffa]

23 y/o. Done about 5 cycles. 215 pounds around 15-20% bf I'm guessing. 6ft. Lifting 6 years. Off cycle at the moment. Last cycle was this past fall.

Monday Morning workout
2 sets pullovers (warmup & stretching)
Flat bench 5x5 (increase weight over 5 sets)
Incline bench 2x12(60% of max)

2 supersets{pull downs, barbell or d-bell rows) increasing weight each set

wed morning
light hammer curls (warmup & stretching)
3 supersets of:
{ seated preacher curl, hammer curl, barbell curl ( increasing weight each set}

dips (warmup & stretching)
2 sets x 10-15 reps
3 supersets of:
{ 2 arm overhead dumbell press, close grip cable push down } (increasing weight each set)

2 supersets of:
{behind the back barbell wrist curls, forearms on bench reverse wrist curls}

friday morning:

note: currently rehabbing knee for injury from last september
I cannot squat or deadlift currently.

leg extensions & leg curls (warmup)
stretching for 5-10 mins
4 sets of 1 legged presses on leg press machine

1-2 sets of leg extensions


2-3 times a week at night:
calves - constant varying weights, excercises and reps
abs

Thanks for any advice

~Joffa

 

[Beefy]

No flame intended, but I don't think you're doing enough. I'm 22, 6'1, 235 @ 15-17 %. Been training for about 8 years. I've never juiced. I wouldn't even call that Monday morning thing a work out, bro. Again, I'm not flaming you. This is just my opinion. You talked about bad genetics in the Anabolic Forum, and I suggested you might have bad gear. If this is your training, I can see why your not getting any results. If you're eating to gain and training like this you will be gaining easily...gaining fat, that is. Okay, bad play on words. Seriously, bro. You need to look at some training books. Maybe read the 5x5 stickies.

I'm not an exercise science pro like some of the guys here are, but when it comes to old school lifting I can hold my own with anybody (I was benching over 415 naturally at 16). My philosophy has always been to give it hell or don't go at all. I don't even step into the gym unless I'm ready to feel the pain of lifting. When it comes to abs, don't ask me. Mine suck. I admit that most exercise science just doesn't hold my attention long enough to learn much about it. But that's probably because I've not really ever needed to get really specific or "scientific" with my training. Honestly, most of my strength is the result of good genetics and hard work, and I've always ate like a mule.Some one with "bad" genetics for lifting needs to be as informed about training as anybody. Off the bat I'd say you need more sets, more variety of exercises, and more weight probably.

If you've got your mind set on being big, etc. You won't let poor training stop you any longer. If what you've said about your attitude towards bodybuilding is true, and I believe it is, you'll learn more about lifting and get to work. You'll see a big change in the results you've been getting once you start training right. Best of luck, bro. I'd be glad to help you in any way.

Beefy

 

[Joffa]

Beefy,

I used to do alot more sets, but I thought I was overtraining. I thought I read on here awhile back that Charles Paloquin recommends that chest routine that I'm doing? 5x5 on the flat, then 2x12 with 60% max on incline? What would you recommend?

~Joffa

 

[J DUB]

Joffa,

Your routine has WAY too much emphasis on isolation exercises, like the arm day. Doing wrist curls and preacher curls isn't going to do shit for you in terms of serious mass. I have read studies (and my own experience) that show that compound exercises are MORE effective than isolation exercises,,,one that I am thinking from the NSCA examined the chin up vs the Curl and found the chin up produced much more mass and strength than curls.

What I am saying is that until you are 250, don't worry about the wrist curls. I promise your forearms will get much bigger doing pull ups or deadlifts (when you can). Don't worry about curls, do rows and chins/pullups.

Why 1 legged leg presses? Let me guess, your PT said you need to activate and strengthen your VMO? If you can do double leg, by all means do it although I don't see why you can leg press but not squat when it is your knee and not your back that is an issue. When you get back to 100%, cut out the leg ext and leg curls and just squat or deadlift, RDL, glute ham raise or hyperextension, good mornings for legs.

I would suggest doing the 5x5 or do a search of my posts and find mine on the "Russian" program I use sometimes. For either, substitute leg press for squats but do bench and the rest. Keep your workout as simple as possible with exercises that give you the most bang for your buck. For example, the curl hits the biceps group and not much else...the pull up hits pretty much the entire back and bi group.

Also, what is wrong with your knee? Sorry if this is a bit scatterbrained, I have to write a paper soon and am trying to get this to you fast. Please ask more questions if you have any, as there are some knowledgable people in this section. Glad to see you posted here.

 

[Grizzly]

Ditto ^^^^ The arm day was the first thing I noticed as being seriously fucked up. Man, you spend more time and effort on a muscle group the size of a baseball than you do on the rest of your body put together.

Damn, I just looked again. You days go: Chest/Back. Arms. Legs. Do you see a problem with this? The miniscule, tiny, eensy weensy arms that are pretty much worthless in terms of gaining strength and mass get their own day, while you back, which can carry assloads of muscle, is done as an afterthought after chest with a shitty routine to top it off. (no offense, but I really don't like that back workout)

Personally, I would suggest dropping the superset. There's no need. I think it actually hinders your gains because you can't throw around the same weight. Pulldowns? Are you a weak backed sissy? PullUPS would be a much, much, much better exercise. Rows are the tits, but I would check out the sticky and read how to do "JS Rows" as they are the most effective.

Yeah, that's about all I have right now. But let me really drive home the PullUPS point.

 

[Joffa]

Note taken, JDub and Grizz. Don't think this is my only routine though. I've done HST routines and the 5x5 routine before. I started doing this one to change things up. I'm not doing 5x5 right now, because my knee is still recovering and I can't squat or deadlift, so I thought without those the 5x5 wouldn't do me much good.

The reason I'm limiting myself to such low number of sets on this routine is because I have done large numbers of sets before and thought that maybe I was overtraining, so I forced myself to do only a few sets, but do them to maximum intensity.

That said with your recommendations, as soon as my shoulder feels ready, I think I'm going to start the 5x5 program. Can I still do calves/abs at night during this? I have really bad calves.

JDub & Grizz, thanks for the slapping around. Maybe this is what I needed. I haven't been growing lately and needed my stuff evaluated. Thanks for the kick in the pants. And Grizz, if you would be so kind, I also posted my diet under the nutrition section for review; I could use your help. Thanks guys,

~Joffa

 

[Beefy]

There you go, bro. J DUB and Grizz are two of the most knowledgable wieght lifters on the board. To answer your question about overtraining and chest, I would do a chest day like this: 4 sets of 10 barbell incline press
4 / 10 barbell flat press
2 / 10 barbell decline press
3/ 10 dumbell flyes on an incline bench
3/ 10 dumbell flyes on a flat bench
That would not be anything near over training on a chest day. Do like Grizz said and save back for another day. If you can only train 3 days a week do chest/tri's one day, then legs (to allow more time for your upperbody to heal), then back/bi's. If you do tri's with chest, just add some dips and some cable press downs after you do your compound chest exercises.

 

[Primo Max]

After reading this I'm wondering what type of knee injury you have. I don't know what condition your knee is in so I can only speculate. For one thing, leg extensions are probably the most unhealthy thing to do for your knee. Even extremely light full squats would be better in this program. Also, I deadlift all the time, and I'm about your height, and I don't really have to bend my knees much to get down to the bar. So, what I'm saying is that your knee shouldn't affect your ability to deadlift. At the very least, use some sort of Deadlift where the knee doesn't really have to bend at all such as Romanian or Stiff legs. These would also be a lot better than the leg curls you're currently doing, and I can't see how they would stress your bad knee. Actually, doing leg curls makes my knees hurt, so I would think that if anything this would be the worst option for you. I would reevaluate your ability to deadlift or even squat, because if you can do leg extensions and curls, I dont see how you can't squat or DL, since the movements you do put more stress on the knee than the squat or DL.

 

[Joffa]

Primo, it's interesting. It's getting better now, but for awhile if I squated down, even with no bar, I felt sharp pain in my knee. However the leg extensions and curls did not hurt very much at all. I injured it by falling on the steps outside yankee stadium after a rain delay game in September. I caught myself and landed on my feet, however I landed in a fully squatted position, and when I landed I felt pain in my knee. It was painful walking for several days, and after that I could not even squat down without getting pain. At the advice of a coach at my school, I started doing light one legged presses and icing it after workouts. I've gotten my one legged press to increase a great deal by now, and the knee doesn't even hurt when doing them, so I'm thinking it's time to try squatting & deadlifting again, lightly though.

~Joffa

 

[J DUB]

If the problem is your knee, then a leg press is not much worse than a squat. Just think about it, it's common sense.

As far as one-leg presses go, I don't know why he told you to do those but there is an unfortunate trend among a lot of PT's and athletic trainers to prescribe these. If you can do a 1 leg press, you can do a regular leg press so start out with those then go to squatting. I would do some bodyweight squats before the leg press, and then once you feel ready to add weight to the squats progress from the leg press to the squat rack.

You will never grow a considerable amount without doing heavy compound movements such as squats and deadlifts, so when you can do these do them.

 

[Joffa]

Did my first day of 5x5 yesterday. I felt myself getting close to throwing up several times. Another words, I LOVED it. I also realized what was wrong the first time I did 5x5. I thought I was supposed to lead up to my max during each 5x5 set; I didn't realize I should use the same weight for all 5 sets. It makes much more sense this way. I did the typical wednesday routine which includes deadlifts. I deadlifted and my knee was ok! I'm gonna try doing some light squats tomorrow and see how my knee feels. Thanks for all the tips guys; I'm excited about looking ahead to growing again!


Just as a side note, as for being able to leg press, but not squat - I could not even squat down without a bar without getting alot of pain inside my knee, but on the leg press I could position my feet alot farther foward then I would be able to while squatting, because I didn't have to worry about balancing. Either way, I followed the advice of this coach since september and my knee is feeling alot better now, so it must be working. He recommended that to me along with really deep stretching it and also icing it. Looks like it worked.

~Joffa

 

[J DUB]

You know you don't always use the same weight for all 5 sets right??? Like one day you work up to 5RM max, etc.

I really don't understand how folks get confused with the 5x5!! It is about the simplest program out there.

Anyway, glad to see you're changing things up...you needed to, LOL. Now let us know how sore you are after squatting.

 

[Primo Max]

Good to see that the Deadlifts don't bother the knee. I didn't think they would.

 

[Joffa]

Thanks to all the advice on here, I have ajusted my diet and training. Meso's still got it! I want to make sure I'm doing the 5x5 correctly. In a couple different threads I see slight variations, and want to make sure what I'm doing is ok.

monday:
squat 5x5 with same weight
bench 5x5 with same weight
row 5x5 same weight

wed:
squat 5x5 with increasing weight each set till 5th set
deadlift 5x5 with same weight
military press 5x5 with same weight
chins 5x5

friday:
squat 5x5 with same weight
bench 5x5 with increasing weight each set till 5th set
row 5x5 with increasing weight each set till 5th set

~Joffa

 

[J DUB]

Monday- heavy as you can for 5x5 on the movements, be sure to have a weight you can get 5x5, not 2 sets of 5 then 3 sets of 3-4.

Wednesday- Take weight you used on exercises Monday, but use 10-20% less. Same principle. For bench, use 10% less, SQ and DL 15-20% less.

Friday- Workout up to a max set of 5 on each movement. For example, if your 5RM for Squats is 315, then do say 135/5, 185/5, 225/5, 275/5, 315/5.