Help HCG and PCT

[Ydoc]

I'm starting a Test E cycle on Monday. My first cycle ever

6'1"
210LBS
13%bf
29 years old
Lifting for years

Week 1-12 Test E 500mg/wk
250mg Monday and Thursday
Week 1-14 Anastrozol .5mg/eod
Week 15/16 Nolv 40mg/ed
Week 17/18 Nolv 20mg/ed

Couple questions about HcG. I've seen a lot of diff protocals for it on the net and want to know what you guys think is the best protocal?
Every day at a given amount?
Every other day at a given amount ?
A couple times a week?
How many weeks?
What week to start and finish?

I can't seem to find an consistent answer.

Also do you think I should add clomid into this mix?

I'd appreciate any help I can get.
Thanks.

 

[Walker]

twice a week day before your test pin at 250 IU per injection...from week 3 -10 , you should also include arimidex at .25 mg EOD This is what it should look like, hope this helps


Wk 1-12 Test E @ 250mg 2/wk Mon am - Thurs pm.
HcG 250 IU twice per week day before test pin
Wk 1-14 Adex .25mg EOD and monitor visual and felt sides - increase if necessary.
Wk 15-19 PCT

clomid and nolva for pct...

clomid 75/50/50/50
nolva 40/20/20/20

 

[bambam333]

mans got it spot on

 

[Ydoc]

I really appreciate the reply. I'm one of those people that likes to understand why I'm doing something apposed to just doing it. Can you explain why HCG weeks 3-10? For example why not week 3-pct? I'm not questioning you, I just want to understand your thought process.
Thanks.

 

[Walker]

im no doctor but including HCG on cycle helps prevent testicular atrophy ...and pct should be used after your cycle...but kept on hand if side effects occur..

 

[bambam333]

i gotcha its because it can supress luteinizing hormone

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Actually, this is one of the cycles that most lead to ASIH. It is the 2-week PCT error that catches so many.

 

[mghoward74]

HCG twice a week on the same day you pin test E.

Start PCT 2 weeks after last TEST E pin.
OR 3 days after Test P pin.

Pct:
100/100/50/50 (clomid)
40/40/20/200 (nolvadex)
●you can extend to 5-6 weeks depending on the individual●

Also aromasin on cycle and during pct

There are other protocols you can use for hcg ( which states to start hcg no later than week #2 and discontinue use 2 weeks before last Test E pin

Respectfully

 

[Burrr]

Anastrozole is adex, but your dose is a little stout. I'd start at ,25mg every third day.
Did you see what Scally mentioned above? He believes that 2 weeks is not long enough to drop test levels down to a good PCT starting level.
I recently saw someone post bloods 3 weeks after last pin of test E, on a 500 a week cycle. Numbers came in at mid 300's, probably a good starting point.
If you have any libido left, your Test is probably still too high to start PCT.

 

[Burrr]

Have you gotten pre cycle blood work done yet?

 

[Michael Scally MD]

HCG twice a week on the same day you pin test E.

Start PCT 2 weeks after last TEST E pin.
OR 3 days after Test P pin.

Pct:
100/100/50/50 (clomid)
40/40/20/200 (nolvadex)
●you can extend to 5-6 weeks depending on the individual●

Also aromasin on cycle and during pct

There are other protocols you can use for hcg ( which states to start hcg no later than week #2 and discontinue use 2 weeks before last Test E pin

Respectfully

Without consideration of the dose, this is the biggest mistake for PCT. And, as I said, a major cause of ASIH.

 

[mghoward74]

Without consideration of the dose, this is the biggest mistake for PCT. And, as I said, a major cause of ASIH.

Do you have anything (links) that refers to test dosages and pct start time?

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Have a read on the following using TE 600 mg/week. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101#t=article

And, the table - http://www.nejm.org/action/showImage?doi=10.1056/NEJM199607043350101&iid=t03

One week after TE 600 mg/week, the serum testosterone mean was roughly 3,000 ng/dL. Also, a SD ~400 ng/dL. That means someone might have had a level of ~3,800 ng/dL one week after the last pin.

The best course in PCT is not to rush but to be conservative for half-lives (overestimate) so as to ensure HPTA restoration. Erring on the low side for half life runs the greater risk of ASIH. And, that is exactly what I observed clinically far too often.

 

[heady muscle]

Have a read on the following using TE 600 mg/week. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101#t=article

And, the table - http://www.nejm.org/action/showImage?doi=10.1056/NEJM199607043350101&iid=t03

One week after TE 600 mg/week, the serum testosterone mean was roughly 3,000 ng/dL. Also, a SD ~400 ng/dL. That means someone might have had a level of ~3,800 ng/dL one week after the last pin.

The best course in PCT is not to rush but to be conservative for half-lives (overestimate) so as to ensure HPTA restoration. Erring on the low side for half life runs the greater risk of ASIH. And, that is exactly what I observed clinically far too often.

Very good stuff Doc. Thank you.

 

[Ydoc]

Dang.... Thanks for all the info guys. So my test is TestE-300
I want to use 250 twice a week. How would I measure that on my syringe. I've searched online and people with a similar issue end up taking 600mg instead of 500 because it's easier to measure. Is rather do 500.

 

[stang4u2nv]

I woukd have to agree with scally on this one. This is common sense as a 600mg dose will take less time to clear than a lets say 1000mg dose, thus pct start time should be considered. Week 3-4 after last pin is a good protocol based on the lower end of dosage being administered. Most people walk around with low test levels anyways which leads me to believe that waiting an extra week or so for the higher dosages will not negatively impact recovery time.

 

[Walker]

def would be easier just to do 300 mg's =1ml... but you could likely just divide it

.33ml=100mg
.825ml=250mg

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Please bare in mind that what Dr. Scally has presented are results from Pharmaceutical grade testosterone. Using a reputable UGL often produce results similar to what has been represented above. But for the majority, two weeks post cycle is usually enough time for testosterone levels to return close enough to begin recovery phase. A few variables, but you get the picture.

 

[Northern Nutrition]

As an aside, this is why i often recommend ending long estered cycles with a short ester in order to begin recovery sooner.

 

[Ydoc]

Do you guys think I should just do 300-350mg instead of 500mg a week seeing that it's my first cycle? I've bene doing a lot of research and some people say to start at a smaller dose at first then progress as you take another cycle? I'm also read that some people base it off of the individual. For example someone my size 6'1" 215 May need more than someone 5'9" 170. Any input?
I appreciate all the info by the way.