Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high E

[madclown]

Lou,

Both labs were drawn at 8:30am. I'm pretty sure I got a decent night's sleep, if I recall... but it was more than half a year ago. My actual hormone charts are in the 3rd post down from the original if you want to check them out.

Unfortunately I never took a baseline before starting Finasteride, I didn't even know HTPA shutdown could happen due to the drug otherwise I NEVER would have taken it.

Only after the side effects hit me did I realize my mistake. Looking back I wish I had taken one, but then again MERCK's propaganda and my doctor's assurance that nothing bad would happen, and if I quit things would go back to normal didnt exactly make me think I needed to have a baseline in the first place. Ultimately that's my fault for not doing enough research at the time.

I realize a T level of 519 look may look "normal" to most docs, but I definitely don't feel like I used to as mentioned in the original post. Since Finasteride I have no desire for sex, difficulty getting turned on/getting erections and staying hard, reduced ejaculate, and general lack of mental clarity /energy/ambition.

From what I have read, guys in their mid 20s should be in the 700-850 range, correct?. If so, I'm still not "normal" yet (especially considering I was at 388 last January).

How can I be at 519 with an LH of 2.0? What should I be aiming to get my E2 down to (range)? Once E2 is brought down, does it stay down for good?

Thanks...

 

[lou123]

Your LH level on that test is not accurate. LH pulses and has to be tested many times within a 2 hour period to be accurate.

Since your test went from 3xx to 519 it may be higher now since it is 7 months later.

I'm not sure what is causing your problem but you don't have secondary HYpoG. Your T level could have been in the same range before Propecia but we will never know for sure.

A very low dose of Arimidex would lower your E2 and raise your T. You also need an SHBG test.

One thing you don't want to do is hop on TRT for life even though I doubt any Dr would prescribe it for you.

Have you ever used steroids ? Your numbers seem like a person who used steroids without proper PCT and your body is just getting back to normal.

 

[raw1973]

Try switching to 1/2 mg of Propecia a day. With me in has a dramatic effect on my libido with no change in hair loss. When Merck was getting the drug appoved they did studies saying .25 mg was effective. Also all the people in the studies were using a shampoo such as Nizoral

I DO also use Nizoral but it may be difficult to lower the amount to .5 because I split 5mg tabs into 4 pieces, so splitting into 8 may be difficult. I'm thinking of trying minoxodil and nizoral combo. Still wondering if anyone taking finasteride has had thyroid issues because of a test/ estrogen imbalance.?...--- Rob

 

[madclown]

Lou,

No I've never used steroids in my life. I've never used any other drugs either, except for taking Finasteride. I'm a very healthy guy, I eat healthy, walk a lot, and have lifted over the years.

How long can it take for a man's HPTA/T production to normalize after abusing steroids? Months? Years?

However... if (hopefully) my T has risen higher since 7 months ago, and I am still experiencing all these issues... what would that suggest? As pointed out by others, seems it could potentially be high E2 (since I did get a small amount of gyno) or maybe high SHBG/Albumin. Can an E2 level of 43 really shut down a guy that bad?

Or... is it possible Finasteride damage the 5AR-II enzyme and my body cannot produce much DHT anymore (just a thought)?

I don't know, but once I get my next labs I hope to have a much clearer picture.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[lou123]

Nobody seem to know exactly what Propecia does to the guys who have problems from taking it. It's not just a T and E2 issue as that could be solved quite easilly.

You just seem to be one of the unlucky ones

Has it gotten any better since you stopped ? Maybe time will help.

Steroid users can (although it's rare) get stuck indefinately after just one steroid cycle without PCT.

i would get another blood test and throw in SHBG.

You could contact Dr John but as ar as i know he doesn't have an answer either

 

[jaydee]

Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high

So if Clomid or Nolva doesnt work....(and i know its not working for me)...wouldnt TRT be the answer?

For me, ive got low free T and my Total T has dropped by a third. I know this becuase I DID get my Total T tested before finasteride and it was 25. After finasteride it is at 18.

My SHBG is mid range and E is in check.

As well as the PCT of Clomid, i am also on DHEA and DIM. Still nothing.

I am NOT a happy camper.

 

[lou123]

I DO also use Nizoral but it may be difficult to lower the amount to .5 because I split 5mg tabs into 4 pieces, so splitting into 8 may be difficult. I'm thinking of trying minoxodil and nizoral combo. Still wondering if anyone taking finasteride has had thyroid issues because of a test/ estrogen imbalance.?...--- Rob

I use Minox, Nizoral and Propeci with great results. I'm (hopefully) gettin a script for proscar this week. You should be able to cut the tabs in 6 pieces and you would get about .80 mg each

 

[lou123]

Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high

So if Clomid or Nolva doesnt work....(and i know its not working for me)...wouldnt TRT be the answer?

For me, ive got low free T and my Total T has dropped by a third. I know this becuase I DID get my Total T tested before finasteride and it was 25. After finasteride it is at 18.

My SHBG is mid range and E is in check.

As well as the PCT of Clomid, i am also on DHEA and DIM. Still nothing.

I am NOT a happy camper.

Did your LH and FSH shoot way up on Clomid/Tamxox ? If so what happened to your T level ?

 

[jaydee]

Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high

I havnt gotten any labs drawn since starting the clomid 3 weeks ago. My doctor wants me to do labs a month after the clomid.

So I have no idea what my LH and FSH is doing at the moment. What would that mean if they shot up?

 

[Legenden1999]

Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high

So if Clomid or Nolva doesnt work....(and i know its not working for me)...wouldnt TRT be the answer?

For me, ive got low free T and my Total T has dropped by a third. I know this becuase I DID get my Total T tested before finasteride and it was 25. After finasteride it is at 18.

My SHBG is mid range and E is in check.

As well as the PCT of Clomid, i am also on DHEA and DIM. Still nothing.

I am NOT a happy camper.

Im a propecia sufferer myself, and I have tried both clomid, nolva, HCG and testosterone shots, but so far only very little improvement.

I had T levels at about 8-10nmol/l befor any treatment. Clomid raised my LH by like 500% and my T shot up above referece but I just didnt feel much different. After 2 months on clomid I stopped, but my T was now at 17nmol/l. This stuck for 5 months, and then it dropped to 13nmol/l, and after a short time down to 10nmol/l again.

TRT with HCG was a little better cause it gave me a little more energy, and mind you that this was with optimized T and E2 levels. I did TRT for 3 months and did 2 months PCT with nolva. I stopped because I felt that TRT was not the answer, and I wouldnt risk getting dependent on it.

Since then I have gotten a saliva test that showed severe adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism. Im currently on 30mg hydrocortisone a day and plan on taking armour to see if that will give me any relief.

From my experience, I have learned that there are more to finasteride sideeffects than just bad T / E2 values, cause then it would indeed have been an easy fix. I think Dr. John can confirm this.

Read my whole story in my sig, although its not quite updated,

JH

 

[jaydee]

Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high

Legenden, storys like yours scare the absolute crap out of me. I was banking on TRT to fix this. I honestly dont know how I will take it if TRT doesnt work. I am still in my 20s....

I mean how do you deal with this for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE?

This is my worst nightmare come true and there is nothing I can do about it. It has wrecked my life.

 

[Legenden1999]

Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high

Legenden, storys like yours scare the absolute crap out of me. I was banking on TRT to fix this. I honestly dont know how I will take it if TRT doesnt work. I am still in my 20s....

I mean how do you deal with this for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE?

This is my worst nightmare come true and there is nothing I can do about it. It has wrecked my life.

Yeah tell me about it...

I have been fucked up for 5,5 years now, but at least somethings have gotten better.
I no longer have panicattacks, and I have learned to manage stress to make my life bearable.

But, most impotantly, I have not lost hope. I'll continue to research and continue to try new drugs till the day I get well, or the day I die!

JH

 

[madclown]

Lou... like Legenden, panic attacks have ceased, erections are a tad easier than a year ago, but still major problems... usually its a wet noodle, if I can get turned on at all. The "never being horny" feeling is what I miss the most... I remember how it used to be, the pounding sensation in my head (a good thing), butterflies in the stomach when u see a hot girl...

Seems the only people who know what may have happened is Merck (or maybe they don't, even)... but fat chance getting any info out of them unless there's a class action lawsuit... perhaps eventually this may happen, there are more and more men using Propecia everyday and if a number of them get messed up like we did, maybe doctors will take notice.

I also believe this is intricately linked with neurostransmitters and neurohormones like dopamine... also, since Finasteride disrupts Progesterone --> Allopregnanalone conversion, I'm sure this also had a detrimental affect in more ways than one.

Ultimately, I am wondering if Finasteride somehow permanently disabled the 5AR Type-II enzyme, or changed its genetic structure somehow so that it does not function correctly anymore.

Anyone know if its possible to test for 5AR Type-II levels/activity in the body? If so, how?

 

[lou123]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's an age related problem. I started at 29 with a slight loss of Libido at 1 mg but an increase in libido when i take 1/2 mg. Try to figure that out !

Guys have been using Proscar at 5 x's the dosage for a long time. You wou think thye would all have terrible side effects but it doesn't seem that way.

If you start young your body may not have fully developed, Just a guess but who knows

 

[jaydee]

Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high

Madclown, Dr John will only use a 24 hr urine test to get the actual amount of 5AR activity. The bio-available amount. He says blood tests are useless in measureing the amount of 5AR activity.

He also said that of his patients with finasteride induced problems, the 5AR activity in most if not all are normal. He doesnt think its a DHT problem - from what i can understand. This of course is the complete opposite of what Dr Lin claims. All I know is somthing went terribly wrong especially when I stopped taking it.

 

[TylerR]

Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high

Jaydee,

Have you also had blood test for DHT, I find the urine test for DHT to show significantly different results then the blood test for DHT.

When I had a urine test my DHT was well above range, but with a blood test my DHT was in the bottom third of the range.

Did you get tested both methods? If you did what were your results?

 

[jaydee]

Re: Help me please -- Finasteride-induced secondary hypogonadism, low T/LH/FSH, high

I got DHT blood test done which showed i was 2.3 ref (2 - 20). I dont know what the units for that were.

I havnt had a urine one done yet, but probably will in the near future. Im thinking about going on TRT as soon as my doctor gets back from holidays in two weeks. Im on clomid at the moment and it has not worked for me. Even if my blood tests show that my T has risen, i still think i need TRT because of the higher DHT i can get from a gel. Also some guys to get raises in there T from clomid and stuff, but it doesnt releive their symptoms like adding actual testosterone does.

 

[madclown]

All,

It has now been 19 months since I quit Finasteride due to the side effects mentioned in the first post of this thread (please read to see what happened).

When I came off the drug I had what I believe were symptoms of Secondary Hypogonadism, and the bloodwork looked to confirm this (contrary to what my doc believes). 19 months later I still have the same side effects listed in my original post (ED, loss of libido, shrunken penis/nuts, numb genitalia, decreased semen volume, no nocturnal/morning/spontaneous erections etc.)

I just got new bloodwork a few weeks ago, this is 1 year after my last labs from May 2006. There are some disturbing things I have noticed, particularly in the Haemotology Panel and Pregnenolone, which are out of range.

Could some experts please review my latest lab work and give feedback? I even did a comparison shot between last year's and this year's values to make it easier to see what is happening.

Here is my lab work:

http://members.shaw.ca/fuzzyd1ce/

Many thanks.

 

[JanSz]

All,

It has now been 19 months since I quit Finasteride due to the side effects mentioned in the first post of this thread (please read to see what happened).

When I came off the drug I had what I believe were symptoms of Secondary Hypogonadism, and the bloodwork looked to confirm this (contrary to what my doc believes). 19 months later I still have the same side effects listed in my original post (ED, loss of libido, shrunken penis/nuts, numb genitalia, decreased semen volume, no nocturnal/morning/spontaneous erections etc.)

I just got new bloodwork a few weeks ago, this is 1 year after my last labs from May 2006. There are some disturbing things I have noticed, particularly in the Haemotology Panel and Pregnenolone, which are out of range.

Could some experts please review my latest lab work and give feedback? I even did a comparison shot between last year's and this year's values to make it easier to see what is happening.

Here is my lab work:

http://members.shaw.ca/fuzzyd1ce/

Many thanks.

Get tested:
Estradiol, sensitive
DHT, dihydrotestosterone
SHBG
Albumin
Prolactin
FreeT3

 

[keaster]

Not sure if anyone gave you a reply yet but this doctor is good.

http://www.mastersmensclinic.com/

He was trained by Crisler