Hey Grizzly...you big hairy bastard...

[Kayz]

No, I do not support interracial relationships of any kind. They don't bother me because they really don't effect my everyday life, but I do feel that one should stick with his/her own race.

And I'm not saying this because I'm some Fascist Neo-Nazi who wants to create a super-race (although my ancestors are 100% german and I have light hair and blue eyes). I say this because I don't want the entire world to become a big melting pot of individuals who look like one another. In fact, I fully support diversity...so much so that individuals should not intermingle with other races...how is that for diversity? I want everyone to be different and love everyone for who they truly are. If we all look alike, and are a hybrid of many different cultures and ethnicities, then there is no such thing as diversity.

Also, I had a friend in high school who was half white, half black....and he never heard the end of it. Somebody always had a smart ass comment towards him. He always said it didn't bother him, but I know it did. Kids can be really cruel because they don't know how to lie. I'd venture to say that nearly 100% of interracial kids have to put up with a whole lot of shit. Maybe that makes them a stronger person though.

 

[Grizzly]

So it's just between colors then? I can dig. But what about diversity of character? Isn't that where true diversity lies? Kwami(that dude from The Apprentice) might be a colored fellow, but he'd fit in in any upscale drawing room. However, he'd be completely lost in the ghetto. Thus, diversity is not a measure of color, but, rather, a measure of character.

Sometimes half-breeds get you in trouble, too. Turns out my buddy Kermit is half and half. The was unknown to me when I first met him. So, we're all sitting out drinking at my buddy's house and his fiancee is talking about how she has changed her mind about wanting to teach in Florida(a plan of hers for a couple years) due to the "diversity" of the students she would have to teach.

She was himming and hawing, trying to skirt around the issue and be politically correct. So I bust out with, "let me tell you what I call them...." LMMFAO! That's when I learned my very white looking friend's curly hairy is not because he's Jewish.

 

[Kayz]

So it's just between colors then? I can dig. But what about diversity of character? Isn't that where true diversity lies? Kwami(that dude from The Apprentice) might be a colored fellow, but he'd fit in in any upscale drawing room. However, he'd be completely lost in the ghetto. Thus, diversity is not a measure of color, but, rather, a measure of character.

Sometimes half-breeds get you in trouble, too. Turns out my buddy Kermit is half and half. The was unknown to me when I first met him. So, we're all sitting out drinking at my buddy's house and his fiancee is talking about how she has changed her mind about wanting to teach in Florida(a plan of hers for a couple years) due to the "diversity" of the students she would have to teach.

She was himming and hawing, trying to skirt around the issue and be politically correct. So I bust out with, "let me tell you what I call them...." LMMFAO! That's when I learned my very white looking friend's curly hairy is not because he's Jewish.

Very true, but in Kwame's case was that a measure of character or a reflection of his upbringing??? Kwame was obviously highly educated, highly articulate, and possessed a keen business sense. That is certainly a characteristic trait that I admire in anybody, but IMO those are more values instilled by ones parents from day one. Many blacks (or any other race for that matter) are brought up in bad areas, but their good upbringing provides them with the necessary tools to rise above their geographical surroundings. Likewise, there are many affluent whites who turn out to be worthless pieces of shit. IMO, this is more of a value issue than anything.

But to answer your question, NO...I do not think that color should be the ONLY determining factor. If I had a daughter, I'd much rather her be with a good black man who treats her good and takes proper care of her than a piece of shit white trash who abuses her. However, in my narrow mind, I could not help but think to myself "yeah this black man (or hispanic...etc) is good to her, but there are many many good white men who could do just the same." Maybe that's wrong of me, but I could see myself thinking along those lines. Does that make sense???

 

[Grizzly]

Yeah, it makes sense. Bothers the shit out of me that my g/f married a walking stereotype. No shit, he is the picture in the dictionary of a you know what. Complete with 17 y/o sister who has 3 or 4 kids. Oh, did I mention he has 4, himself, all of whom he doesn't pay child support to? But, I'm getting off topic.

Hey, if it was my daughter, I'd probably say the same thing. Though I'm more inclined to accept Mexicans and Chinamen than any other race. Shit, sometimes I think that about myself. I'm like, "oooooh, that bitch is hot. And she's WHITE! Good times!"

There is, of course, cultural differences that have to be overcome in multi-racial relationships. But I forget where I'm going with that. And, yes, it's a pretty big deal to my parents, too. Especially the Afri part of the Afrimalans.

 

[Kayz]

And, yes, it's a pretty big deal to my parents, too. Especially the Afri part of the Afrimalans.

LOL..I think your parents and mine would get along real well!!

 

[CyniQ]

I used to believe that the only way to achieve any sort of harmony in the world was to intermingle until we were all the same color. This led me to exclusively date women who were not of my race, mostly black actually. The experiences I gained from those women shaped many of the feelings I have on race relations today. I pulled some heavenly Negro Hiney, let me tell you. And no matter how beautiful, light or dark, the woman I was with. We got looks everywhere we went. Black men looked at me with hate and contempt. White people looked at us with amusement or condemnation. You could see it in their expressions, everyone we saw had an opinion on our relationship, and they didn't even know us.

Ultimately I decided that it was not my responsibility to save the world. And that I would likely be complicating the lives of my children to support some idealistic fantasy. So I abandoned my plan and married a whiter than my Irish ass Scandinavian chick from a well-to-do family.

But I am nonetheless greatly disturbed by the course of this conversation.

 

[Grizzly]

. We got looks everywhere we went. Black men looked at me with hate and contempt. White people looked at us with amusement or condemnation. You could see it in their expressions, everyone we saw had an opinion on our relationship, and they didn't even know us.

This is because, no matter how wonderful you think harmony would be, the fact of the matter is people are clanish, cliquish and don't really like things that aren't like them. It's human nature.

You gonna let your son come home with an atheist like me? Maybe, because you're "enlightened", but I tend to doubt it. Or, if you did, you would soon be sticking your nose in their marriage. "What do you mean you're not going to baptize your baby? Just because that heathen bitch doesn't want it, you're going to condem your child to hell?"(yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you're not into the sacraments and heaven/hell and shit, but you get the point. )

I don't want to date a socialist. I don't want to date a vegetarian. I don't want to date a fat girl....though I do every damned time. Point is...well, there's actually two.

First, there will never be harmony. EVER.

Secondly, people like people like themselves and much of that is related to skin color. Largely because your skin color is, typically, predictive of the culture in which you were raised which colors your personality. Meaning, in most cases, those of different colors can't get along because they have different cultural values.

 

[CyniQ]

This is because, no matter how wonderful you think harmony would be, the fact of the matter is people are clanish, cliquish and don't really like things that aren't like them. It's human nature.

You gonna let your son come home with an atheist like me? Maybe, because you're "enlightened", but I tend to doubt it. Or, if you did, you would soon be sticking your nose in their marriage. "What do you mean you're not going to baptize your baby? Just because that heathen bitch doesn't want it, you're going to condem your child to hell?"(yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you're not into the sacraments and heaven/hell and shit, but you get the point. )

I don't want to date a socialist. I don't want to date a vegetarian. I don't want to date a fat girl....though I do every damned time. Point is...well, there's actually two.

First, there will never be harmony. EVER.

Secondly, people like people like themselves and much of that is related to skin color. Largely because your skin color is, typically, predictive of the culture in which you were raised which colors your personality. Meaning, in most cases, those of different colors can't get along because they have different cultural values.

You're large, hairy, maleness would be much more of a problem than your religion or philosophy. I'm not THAT enlightened.

The majority of your last paragraph is total shit.

People Like people like them. I agree. But that is more a function of culture than color. I understand what you're saying about color being an indicator of culture. But it's not a reliable one. To say that I probably won't be able to get along with someone because they don't share my skin color. Is to say that I probably will because they do. It just doesn't work. Think about GearandSauce's mullet wearin', cheesesteak eatin' ass. He's the same color as me. Culturally... Very different. I have some (culture that is), he doesn't. LOL. Just kiddin' but you get my point.

 

[Grizzly]

Which is why I put in the qualifier "typically".

 

[Grizzly]

And I still maintain that color is predictive of a lot. Ever seen an Asian working manual labor? Ever seen a white guy working at Dunkin Donuts? Ever notice how black people all speak with a "blackcent" despite living in a goddamned uppermiddleclass suburb with 300k baseline houses?(sorry, everytime I hear this shit out here I get pissed off. This ain't the Robert Taylor homes. There's no reason for it.)

Ever notice how there's a dresscode for Italians? Ever met a fully grown, adult Arab without a mustache? LOL

And while these are not set in stone rules(hence the typically) color is largely reflective of culture. (I think that's how I wanted to phrase that)

You said it yourself. I once mentioned how my girlfriend said, in a drunken stupor, "I'm going to get you to marry me and have 8 more children." You said, "wow, she really is hispanic."

Why? Because that's pretty typical/expected behavior from a Hispanic. Her browness is a predictor of her culture.

edit- and speaking of Hispanics... I made a joke about my g/f's earings being stereotypical.(large hoop-style earings) She tried to dispute it. A couple days later I was at my Mexican restaurant. There was about 18 women in there all together. No shit, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM WAS WEARING LARGE, HOOP EARRINGS. Literally, I walked around to look at all of their ears just to prove my point.

 

[CyniQ]

And I still maintain that color is predictive of a lot. Ever seen an Asian working manual labor? Ever seen a white guy working at Dunkin Donuts? Ever notice how black people all speak with a "blackcent" despite living in a goddamned uppermiddleclass suburb with 300k baseline houses?(sorry, everytime I hear this shit out here I get pissed off. This ain't the Robert Taylor homes. There's no reason for it.)

Ever notice how there's a dresscode for Italians? Ever met a fully grown, adult Arab without a mustache? LOL

And while these are not set in stone rules(hence the typically) color is largely reflective of culture. (I think that's how I wanted to phrase that)

You said it yourself. I once mentioned how my girlfriend said, in a drunken stupor, "I'm going to get you to marry me and have 8 more children." You said, "wow, she really is hispanic."

Why? Because that's pretty typical/expected behavior from a Hispanic. Her browness is a predictor of her culture.

edit- and speaking of Hispanics... I made a joke about my g/f's earings being stereotypical.(large hoop-style earings) She tried to dispute it. A couple days later I was at my Mexican restaurant. There was about 18 women in there all together. No shit, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM WAS WEARING LARGE, HOOP EARRINGS. Literally, I walked around to look at all of their ears just to prove my point.

Those are stereotypes, which become so for a reason, obviously. Yes, I've seen stupid asians working shitty jobs. I've met hispanic women without bangs sticking 10" higher than their heads, without 6 kids in tow, and married to men who don't work construction. and I know a number of black people that you wouldn't know were black if you talked to them on the phone.

The stereotypes that you speak of are cultural. So as more asians become acclimated to our welfare oriented society, more hispanics convert to protestant faiths, and more blacks are raised by educated parents who've forsaken their southern roots, those cultural stereotypes will no longer apply. If you teach your kid to make jokes about black people eating fried chicken and watermelon, somebody, someday, is going to stare blankly at him, not having any clue what he's talking about.

 

[Grizzly]

Damn, you really are kind of a hippie, huh? You've got one hell of a rosey view of things. May I have some blotter, too?

I prefer to call them Cultural Phenomenon rather than stereotypes as stereotypes imply unfounded accusation while these are, obviously, well established cultural norms.

The only way your utopia can exist here is if, first and foremost, immigration is stopped completely. All the immigrants I know try to preserve their motherland culture within their families. All of their children learn the "mother tongue" first and foremost. In fact, I've heard from 3 different immigrants that their children will learn English when they get to school. Great parenting there. Quite a good way to set them up for success in this country.

Secondly, there will have to be a major shift in personal comfort levels or whatever I want to call it. Simply put, people self-segregate. You think there's black neighborhoods, white neighborhoods, hispanic barrios and chinatown because the white man is trying to keep everyone down and separated? No, it's because, like I've been saying all along, people want to live by those like themselves. I could save $200/mo on rent, but I don't want to live by "those people".

To illustrate the above two points, let's use my g/f's neighborhood. It's almost entirely Hispanic. Mostly immigrant hispanic. What? You mean to tell me that a little brown girl, raised in the United States, would actually, on purpose, move to a neighborhood comprised entirely of Spanish-speakers? No way! Get out of town, Jack. In this neighborhood, there is a goodly number of 5-7 year olds who don't speak English. One of my step-daughter's friends is in a bi-lingual class because her shitty parents didn't think it was all that important to teach their American daughter fucking English until the school did.

You're right. It is my understanding that many factories in Michigan and Minnesota are filled with Laotians and Vietmanese immigrants. But you bet your ass their children won't be working there. Much like my Korean buddy Ed. His parents emmigrated from Korea and took up the very unique and completely unexpected profession of Laundromat Owners. However, their children will have nothing to do with other people's laundry. His sister received a quarter of a million dollar, East Coast prestigious art school education. I don't know what she's doing now, but it ain't other people's socks.

And come on, watermelon and fried chicken will never go out of style. My partner at work is as black as the midnight sky. However, one would never apply a derogatory ethnic slur to him. He's a great guy all around(though still, unbelievably a member of a street gang). He speaks English as well as I do. Talking to him on the phone, I might not even be able to tell the difference.

He still loves Kool-Aid and Popeyes. Culture, Cyniq. Culture. He doesn't, however, like watermelon. But that's probably because his Dad is actually Belizean and not of African descent, so he's all mixed up in the head.

In the end, there will always be cultural differences and they will very likely be divided along color lines because people live with people who look like them. There might only be 25 Mexicans in Paris, IL, but you bet your ass they all live on the same block. Just like all 5 chinamen live in the same house.

 

[CyniQ]

Well, maybe you're right. You better be prepared to explain it to my wife...




She's gonna want to know why I started fucking black chicks again.

 

[Grizzly]

Bwahahahahahahhaahahaha!

I read your first sentence and was prepared to hear some smarass shit, so I went back to re-read what I wrote. Mainly to admire my greatness , but also to anticipate which part was to elicit the smartass comment and then I scrolled down to read your last sentence....

Hilarious! Just friggn' hilarious.

 

[Grizzly]

But, you know, while the "beauty of grey" might be an admirable goal(though I don't really think so), it would only solve hate and judgements on a racial level. There would still be segregation, hate, judgement and all that shit based on other criteria. Or it could be like Cuba where the "black Cubans" are considered lesser citizens that the "white Cubans", despite there only being a mild difference in color.

In your mulatto-world the discrimination would be based on dress, mannerisms, possessions and other forms of status. It'd be just like how I don't hang out with mullets and I think we should give the bird flu to everyone who doesn't take care of their property.

Instead of this decision:

You're walking through the wooods and you see a white guy, a black guy and a chinaman drowning in a pond. You can only save one, who will it be? (answer: Since I have a cold, I'll elect to save the chinaman because I'm sure he's a doctor or one of his immediate family is. )

The scenario will be:

There are three people drowning. One in a suit, one with a frollet(that's what happens when you mix 'em all up) and the other is fat. You can only save one, who will it be?

In the end, people will, ultimately, discriminate based on something. There's plenty of hate and shit in Poland and that place is 100% white. They still find reasons to dislike each other.

 

[CyniQ]

One down...

I'm not a big fan of utopian dreams or social engineering. Not anymore. LOL. You're right. Selfishness, bigotry, hate, jealousy. These things are somehow burned into our psyches. I don't truly think that we will ever be able to rid ourselves of them.

Ecclesiastes 8:9 Man dominated man to his injury.

I'm going to go back to school and become a therapist, or an analyst. I don't know which. Maybe I'll be both. I can be an anal-rapist.

 

[Bigkarch]

actually mexican is only from certain parts of mexico...what about being Oaxacan..a state im mexico but not mexican...what is latino...what is hispanic...

 

[Grizzly]

You need to stop drinking, bro. You completely missed the humor and the spirit of the thread.

Plus, that's like saying I'm Illinoisan, but not American, because I'm from a specific state in the USA.

I think it is best summed up by a part in the movie crash. A black feller just slept with his Hispanic partner and then said something about telling his mother how he just nailed a Mexican. She says, my dad is Puerto Rican and my mother is Columbian, so I'm not Mexican or some #### like that.

He replies with, "Well, for such diverse and completely different cultures, someone sure as hell taught all of you to park on the lawn." or something like that. LMMFAO!