Hey, looks like I have a new injury for 2004

[Hogg]

Over the last couple of months, my hip has been bothering me. At one point, while sitting down in the hole with 4 plates, I looked at my ass in the mirror and my right hip seemed to be further out of the pocket than my left. Errrr, time to squat a little lighter.

As time progressed, I went to the smith as means of trying to alleviate some undue strain while still placing a load on my legs. I tried to use the fixed track of the smith to do a near hack squat and thus take the load off of my hams and ass.

Well well well......looks like that failed miserably as, over the past couple of months, when I put 3 plates on the smith, it feels like my hip is going to pop out of the socket.

So I went to see my chiro and he did some kind of oddball adjustment that caused a huge release in my lumbar spine. I thought we had it. A week later, same problem.

I couldnt figure it out...it made absolutely no sense to me but then all of a sudden, while sitting on the couch this weekend, I lifted my right foot to the inside - much like you would kick a soccer ball or say a hac-e-sac thing....faggy little bean bag....whatever.....and immediately, pain shot from my hip down past my knee. Ah hah! Found it.

So I talked to my chiro today about it as he tends to help me with more than just structural issues and we got the kinesiology book out. Low and behold, it is an external rotator problem...muscles deep underneath my ass that attach to the hip.

My flexibility is terrible so we are going to give that a shot but deep down inside...I know that that probably wont do it. You see, were it simply a flexibility issue, I would expect a commensurate amount of pain in the left hip when applying the same stimulus...and dont get me wrong, I know that I am right side dominant yet it seems that I am stronger on my left side....wierd.

Anyway, my fear is, I have damaged this thing at some point and for the life of me, since I tend to see the most results in my ass and hamstrings from squatting, I would not have expected to have a weakness in this region.

I find that I can do my romanian dls without any pain and will focus on that lift and feet-close leg press . Mind you, this problem was probably years in the making as I have short legs and a long torso, so for quite some time, even when leg pressing, my lumbar would stay planted in the seat and I would allow my hips to roll so that I had my knees up by my armpits in the leg press...it was the only way I could get a decent range of motion....if I just bend 90 degrees shin to femur, the sled only moves like 10" and I feel like a moron....and never really felt like I was training anything until I started letting my hips roll out.

So, my question is, has anybody torn an external rotator in their ass and how might one go about strengthening this region??? Is it time for the chick machine where you force out agains the pads....adductor I think?? Man, this really frustrates the heck out of me.

 

[Phreezer]

Lol...I doubt that you need to do adductors... I bet that Pullhthroughs would be of some benefit to you though..

In college I developed something similar while squating..It was not as low as yours though.. Out of nowhere my hip would "roll" and it felt like it had popped out.. I tried everything I could think of to make it better.. I tried to change my squat stance.. I went to the smith machine.. I tried the angle leg press with MANY differant foot positions.. but in the end the only thing that helped was time off... I took about six months off from the gym ... and it actually got better ... It started to bother me again when I first started doing the PL thing.. but I noticed that after a couple of months of doing pullthroughs and GHR's It went away, and I haven't had that popping out feeling since...

again.. I don't know if this would apply to you or not..as my injury was a little higher up...but I thought I would share it with you none the less.

 

[Hogg]

Thanks Phreezer. Time off is not a good option for me since I really want to train. A couple months ago, I took 2 weeks off and enjoyed it but now, I want to be back in the gym. I just have to work around it I suppose.

On top of stretching it with the foot-in-crotch-and-grab-knee move, I'm going to continue dl's, maybe do some light 30 rep squats, and perhaps visit the idea of pull throughs.

My doc found some huge knots around the socket. Whether they are scar tissue or simply trigger points is unknown. I'm going to probably start blasting with ultrasound to see if that makes a difference.

 

[musclebobbuffpants]

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like you only get pain when doing some kind of squat?

Hogg, are you box squating right now?

I was just thinking that perhaps a good way to train around the injury would be to work on movements that train the squat. You said DL, you could also do GM's.
There are several variations of the DL and GM's that you could rotate every 2-3 weeks. You could also do some light box squats, say 50-60% 1RM and work on your speed. If you do that, you may want to work off a box that brings you just above parallel, say 1" or so, and as you heal work on a shorter box until you are 1-2" below parallel.

I also agree w/Phreezer about the Pull-throughs and GHR's. They certainly couldn't hurt.

MBBP

 

[rollinsband]

have u been doing warm ups for every leg execise u do ? or have u been jumpn on the heavy weight with no warm ups..too many people have injurys because they wont take the time 2 warm up properly .. if u have read the latest issue of muscle and futness tripple h does 3 warm up sets for e3very exercise he does so do i now ..lets say someone s gonna do 70lb. babrbell curls 3x of 6 reps ok ..if he wanted 2 warm up he' d do this ok .. barbell curl 45 lb. 15 reps , 55lb.12 , 65lb. 10 reps no rest between these sets then u can rest for say 2 mins then start your set..you would do 3 warm up sets for every execise u do..i know u thinkn thats 2 much time ..well if u wanted lets say u decided 2 work legs and u are doing squats,leg press and leg extensions...u could go 2 squats do 3 fast warm up s , rest, go 2 leg extensions do warm ups rest , go 2 leg press do warm ups rest ...then go back and do your hard and heavy failure sets ...this way u will be less likely 2 have any more injurys like u have sustained and ur muscles will be very pumped and will be burning on fire...im sure u will be useing a lil weight after these warmups u may find that true cause when u arent warmed up u tend 2 cheat some what with out knowing it.... well hope this helps .

 

[Hogg]

Ummm, rollinsband, how long have you been around here? Not long right? First and foremost, I dont read muscle & fitness. Second, it is not a warm up issue. Thanks for your time and consideration.

Anyway, MBBP, ummm, my concern with the box squat is that the ROM is going to be very short and the hips/ass load and unload between the eccentric/concentric. I dont know that that is a good idea. I'm really not looking for a westside squat. I like being strong, dont misunderstand me, but I tend to squat high bar rock bottom and it is still a ham/hip/ass lift for me. I have a very odd structure - long torso, short legs.

I use to GM frequently up until about a month ago. GMs were neither hindering me nor helping the rotator issue. I started doing romanians again this weekend and found a lot of comfort in the lift. A agree that some pull throughs might be helpful but I dont have access to a GHR and have read that the floor version is not equivalent.

One other consideration here, shortening up the range of motion will probably exacerbate the problem as i presently have a huge flexibility issue.

 

[musclebobbuffpants]

<"have u been doing warm ups for every leg execise u do ? or have u been jumpn on the heavy weight with no warm ups..too many people have injurys because they wont take the time 2 warm up properly .. if u have read the latest issue of muscle and futness tripple h does 3 warm up sets for e3very exercise he does so do i now ..lets say someone s gonna do 70lb. babrbell curls 3x of 6 reps ok ..if he wanted 2 warm up he' d do this ok .. barbell curl 45 lb. 15 reps , 55lb.12 , 65lb. 10 reps no rest between these sets then u can rest for say 2 mins then start your set..you would do 3 warm up sets for every execise u do..i know u thinkn thats 2 much time ..well if u wanted lets say u decided 2 work legs and u are doing squats,leg press and leg extensions...u could go 2 squats do 3 fast warm up s , rest, go 2 leg extensions do warm ups rest , go 2 leg press do warm ups rest ...then go back and do your hard and heavy failure sets ...this way u will be less likely 2 have any more injurys like u have sustained and ur muscles will be very pumped and will be burning on fire...im sure u will be useing a lil weight after these warmups u may find that true cause when u arent warmed up u tend 2 cheat some what with out knowing it.... well hope this helps .>"

All I can say is,,, WOW!

Hogg, I know you're not into westside training, just giving you some ideas that I thought might help in healing your injury, then go back to the high bar low ass squats.

As far as shortening your ROM, I took that idea from this article on shoulder rehab. I know were talking about your hip here, but I think you can take the rehab principles and apply it where needed.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/shoulder-rehab.htm

We don't have a GHR machine where I'm at either, and I've been doing the floor version. Hits my hammies like nothing I've ever felt. So I think they are effective, perhaps not as effective as a GHR machine, but they are effective. You have to try them to know what I'm talking about. I don't think you'll be sorry, you'll be sore, but not sorry.

MBBP

 

[Hogg]

Hogg, I know you're not into westside training, just giving you some ideas that I thought might help in healing your injury, then go back to the high bar low ass squats.

I know, i got the jist of what you are saying, I'm just wondering....actually, a light box squat would probably be alright but the rom is really short.

As far as shortening your ROM, I took that idea from this article on shoulder rehab. I know were talking about your hip here, but I think you can take the rehab principles and apply it where needed.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/shoulder-rehab.htm

I'll take a gander at the article.

We don't have a GHR machine where I'm at either, and I've been doing the floor version. Hits my hammies like nothing I've ever felt. So I think they are effective, perhaps not as effective as a GHR machine, but they are effective. You have to try them to know what I'm talking about. I don't think you'll be sorry, you'll be sore, but not sorry.

MBBP

I have tried those before and needed a mini band to get off the bottom. You're right, it loads the hams quite a bit. The muscles that I am talking about are responsible for rotating the hip outward and in a circular motion. I'll have to give the kinesiology book a look-see tonight to see if the GHR will have any effect on the rotator. I'm not sure since the problem tends to occur when my legs are not in line with my hips; I can do just about anything with my feet close together but when my feet are slightly outside of the hips, the injured region becomes problematic.

Thanks MBBP.

 

[Neodavid]

Just curious, is a heavy weight required for the pain to occur?

If not, I wonder if you could experiment with foot angle?

I'm thinking if rotators are involved, your physiology (as you said, you were tight) may be forcing the rotators to kick in, or perhaps you are like my when I bench, using ancillary muscles to cheat a bit (no insult intended!).

My rotator problem went away (after some healing of course) when I lowered the weight and concentrated on form. My guess is you are WAY ahead of me on that one and I probably shouldn't even mention it.

But on the other hand, have you experimented with foot angles? If the foot is angled properly, less rotation would be involved... as you said, when your feet are together, no problem.

What happens when you use a lighter weight, and try a greater, and a lessor foot angle? Anything?

Rotation is rotation, I would think... if the foot angle is optimal for your physiology, hopefully the rotators won't be as involved?

I have tried those before and needed a mini band to get off the bottom. You're right, it loads the hams quite a bit. The muscles that I am talking about are responsible for rotating the hip outward and in a circular motion. I'll have to give the kinesiology book a look-see tonight to see if the GHR will have any effect on the rotator. I'm not sure since the problem tends to occur when my legs are not in line with my hips; I can do just about anything with my feet close together but when my feet are slightly outside of the hips, the injured region becomes problematic.

Thanks MBBP.

 

[Phreezer]

Hey Hogg...have you posed this question on TE? Our friends over there could probably help you better...

(For everyone else.. I will not answer questions about TE..so save your time and don't ask fella's)

 

[jah_live10]

Ummm, rollinsband, how long have you been around here? Not long right? First and foremost, I dont read muscle & fitness. Second, it is not a warm up issue. Thanks for your time and consideration.

QUOTE]

LOL.....that is some funny shit.

 

[AnimalMass]

Hey Hogg...have you posed this question on TE? Our friends over there could probably help you better...

(For everyone else.. I will not answer questions about TE..so save your time and don't ask fella's)

BTW Phreez, who owns TE? I've tried to get that dirty sanchez over there for a year now - maybe you can get him to swing over.

AM

 

[Hogg]

BTW Phreez, who owns TE? I've tried to get that dirty sanchez over there for a year now - maybe you can get him to swing over.

AM

It has been quite a while.....I havent even checked out your board this year. I'll make my way over there, I guess its just a creature of habit sort of thing with meso.

 

[Skullfucked]

Over the last couple of months, my hip has been bothering me. At one point, while sitting down in the hole with 4 plates, I looked at my ass in the mirror and my right hip seemed to be further out of the pocket than my left. Errrr, time to squat a little lighter.

As time progressed, I went to the smith as means of trying to alleviate some undue strain while still placing a load on my legs. I tried to use the fixed track of the smith to do a near hack squat and thus take the load off of my hams and ass.

Well well well......looks like that failed miserably as, over the past couple of months, when I put 3 plates on the smith, it feels like my hip is going to pop out of the socket.

So I went to see my chiro and he did some kind of oddball adjustment that caused a huge release in my lumbar spine. I thought we had it. A week later, same problem.

I couldnt figure it out...it made absolutely no sense to me but then all of a sudden, while sitting on the couch this weekend, I lifted my right foot to the inside - much like you would kick a soccer ball or say a hac-e-sac thing....faggy little bean bag....whatever.....and immediately, pain shot from my hip down past my knee. Ah hah! Found it.

So I talked to my chiro today about it as he tends to help me with more than just structural issues and we got the kinesiology book out. Low and behold, it is an external rotator problem...muscles deep underneath my ass that attach to the hip.

My flexibility is terrible so we are going to give that a shot but deep down inside...I know that that probably wont do it. You see, were it simply a flexibility issue, I would expect a commensurate amount of pain in the left hip when applying the same stimulus...and dont get me wrong, I know that I am right side dominant yet it seems that I am stronger on my left side....wierd.

Anyway, my fear is, I have damaged this thing at some point and for the life of me, since I tend to see the most results in my ass and hamstrings from squatting, I would not have expected to have a weakness in this region.

I find that I can do my romanian dls without any pain and will focus on that lift and feet-close leg press . Mind you, this problem was probably years in the making as I have short legs and a long torso, so for quite some time, even when leg pressing, my lumbar would stay planted in the seat and I would allow my hips to roll so that I had my knees up by my armpits in the leg press...it was the only way I could get a decent range of motion....if I just bend 90 degrees shin to femur, the sled only moves like 10" and I feel like a moron....and never really felt like I was training anything until I started letting my hips roll out.

So, my question is, has anybody torn an external rotator in their ass and how might one go about strengthening this region??? Is it time for the chick machine where you force out agains the pads....adductor I think?? Man, this really frustrates the heck out of me.

I am glad you see a good chiropractor who can help alot. I hate fuckers who only trust someone with an MD or DO after their name. If people only knew what even Internal Med MD's pay for liability insurance compared to DC's.

 

[Hogg]

Just curious, is a heavy weight required for the pain to occur?

Nope, around 3 plates, it really starts bothering me.

If not, I wonder if you could experiment with foot angle?

It seems to be foot placement more than anything else. Any position except feet in line with my hip sockets. If my feet are even slightly outside of the line normal through the hip socket, there is pain. Now, as I said earlier, deadlifting does not seem to bother it at all and with the romanian stance, my feet are definitely wider than what I can use in the squat.

I'm thinking if rotators are involved, your physiology (as you said, you were tight) may be forcing the rotators to kick in, or perhaps you are like my when I bench, using ancillary muscles to cheat a bit (no insult intended!).

And no insult taken. The rotators are involved in just about any squat. Think about where your knee is at when you are in the hole, now follow the femur up to the hip, the rotators insert at the femur and originate near the spine. Nobody notices them because they are seldom injured. Some might refer to rotator problems as a pulled glute but it is not the gluteus, the rotators are underneath the glutes.

My rotator problem went away (after some healing of course) when I lowered the weight and concentrated on form. My guess is you are WAY ahead of me on that one and I probably shouldn't even mention it.

So you had problems with your external rotators before? Did you look at your hips in the bottom of the squat? Did one side appear different than the other when in the hole?

But on the other hand, have you experimented with foot angles? If the foot is angled properly, less rotation would be involved... as you said, when your feet are together, no problem.

Right, as I discussed above but you cant use much load squatting that way......and if you have a large torso, you're practically stuck using the smith which sucks.

What happens when you use a lighter weight, and try a greater, and a lessor foot angle? Anything?

As discussed above. Using as little as 60% RM causes pain.

Rotation is rotation, I would think... if the foot angle is optimal for your physiology, hopefully the rotators won't be as involved?

It is not a simple nuance type of condition where closing up my stance an inch solves the problem; I was past that stage months ago and continued attempting to load up....thus leading to where I am at now. At this point, the foot angle that negates the pain is far less than optimal for my physiology and even my normal close stance involves the rotators.

I have reflected back on the recent months and never once did I notice subsurface bleeding along the back of my hamstrings so I am thinking that I did not rupture it. My doc said that a bone spur was unlikely in that area. I'm thinking perhaps a random calcium deposit and/or highly inflexible contractile fibers due to a lack of stretching and perhaps a bunch of scar tissue.

I am leaning toward ultrasound and a lot of stretching coupled with some deep rom, lighter weight loading without the smith....in other words, perhaps a full high bar squat with say a plate or so......and a bunch of time in the adductor machine.

 

[Neodavid]

Yeah, as I figured, your thinking covered way more than my simple thoughts. But, you know, my IQ is a lot higher than my wife's, but every once in a while she nails me with a good one, so I thought I'd try her technique and try to be helpful (grin). Moral support, if nothing else. I feel for you man. Injuries suck, especially when your trying to find the solution.

As always, you will adapt, you will survive, and you will overcome.

It's your destiny.

 

[Hogg]

Yeah, as I figured, your thinking covered way more than my simple thoughts. But, you know, my IQ is a lot higher than my wife's, but every once in a while she nails me with a good one, so I thought I'd try her technique and try to be helpful (grin). Moral support, if nothing else. I feel for you man. Injuries suck, especially when your trying to find the solution.

As always, you will adapt, you will survive, and you will overcome.

It's your destiny.

I certainly appreciate your input regardless. I've been through a grade 3 pec rupture, torn vastus lateralis on both legs, and a number of other issues caused by skeletal problems. As you stated, I will get through this but it is still frustrating.

 

[musclebobbuffpants]

Hogg, I wonder if a pair of groove briefs would help in your situation?

MBBP

 

[Hogg]

Hogg, I wonder if a pair of groove briefs would help in your situation?

MBBP

a very good idea......the added support might help.

 

[Einzelgaenger]

....

.. Whats up Hogg, long time no talk

Anyways ... I have a buddy who I do all my heavy work with, and he seems to have had much the same issue. When we would lift about 4 plates, he would start having the same issue: he felt some strange popping in his hip and he would lock up, when we got the weight off him, he would say he felt like he was almost to the point of dislocation. He had no problem deadlifting.

We revolved around to some different machines, and sometimes the pain was there, sometimes it wasn't. We played around with his foot plaement, also, but to no real effect.

I was kinda stumped, so I made him start squating at 225 and work his way up by tens .... I stood in front of him, instead of spotting him, and it appeared to me that as the weight went higher, he was, of course, leaning forward a bit more, and maybe not "sitting" like he should. It appeared that his left side was slightly higher, and that there was a slight rotation forward. When I bitched to him about it, and tried to straighten him out, he complained that he was not flexible enough and that at the bottom of the movement he felt too much tension to sit properly. Sooooo ...

Long story short (but this is already long), I discovered his flexibility was bad. And I mean he could barely reach his ankles. So I started stretching him out for about 15 minutes before our PL days. And I mean the heavy kind of "ouch stop it that hurts" stretching that you need a partner for.

After about 3 or 4 weeks, he started feeling less tension in the squat, and, after about 2 months of slow work, I got him back up to his previous weight and he felt no tension.

Well ... thats about it .. I hope you are doing well otherwise, Bro.

Later,

Einzelgaenger