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HGH at 23, am im stupid?

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Proud Pangolin

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So, as you guys can see am a new member. The reason why i joined is harmreduction and basiacally i should mature enough to know the answer but:

Im 23 (had two cycles, last one was 600mg test and 600mg DHB even though i started with 500mg test and 400mg DHB. At the end i threw in some tbol but only because i quit the DHB (cypionate) much earlyer but anyways thats not the topic). Right now im cutting to get ready for next cycle (600mg test and 600mg DHB as i dont see why i should change a working system and its a strong cycle anyways)

What does this have to do with HGH? I got pretty fat over Christmas. I have to lose between 5-10kg. Thats 11-22 freedom per eagel (lb).

So i ordered som HGH to help with fatloss. In the first 2-3 months (with some 2weeks break in it though) of my pcf i used GHRP-2 and that other thin "no dac" (sorry i cant access my freezer right now). You know what im talkimg about.

I had very good results on it. I bulked and even though i ate a lot, i really didnt get fat. Thats why i was so surprised how fat i got during my one moth vacation because while obviously not training and doing my cardio its not like I stuffed my self like a pig. The fact that i run my enclomiphen citrate pretty long (8weeks full dosage and then i slowly reduces the dosage the next 3 weeks) may also have played a role because it raisesed my testosteron.

But my feeling was that this came from the peptides.

So until like a couple of day my plan was to run 4IU of HGH (split into two dosages as a fat loss protocoll) for like 1-2 months.

Now i have read the horrorstory here if that guy you took HGH at the age of 19?20? Something like that for only 4months and had significant face changes.

Im a pretty guy, i really dont want to lose that.

So basiacally i want to know what your take is on this. And yes i do realise nobody can gurantee anything, everybody is different etc.
But how stupid of an idea based on risk/benefit would you rate this from 1-10?

Im like torn appart, one part of me things, thats was one single case, you are anyways playing with your natural test, hair and health/life so stop bitching
And the other part says, why would you risk getting ugly just for some fatloss.
 
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At your age....there are far easier ways to lose weight.

Even if not, GH is really something to run long term 6+ months.

There are people smarter than me on the topic and you at least sound like you are questioning your decision so that's good.
 
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Proud Pangolin said:
So, as you guys can see am a new member. The reason why i joined is harmreduction and basiacally i should mature enough to know the answer but:

Im 23 (had two cycles, last one was 600mg test and 600mg DHB even though i started with 500mg test and 400mg DHB. At the end i threw in some tbol but only because i quit the DHB (cypionate) much earlyer but anyways thats not the topic). Right now im cutting to get ready for next cycle (600mg test and 600mg DHB as i dont see why i should change a working system and its a strong cycle anyways)

What does this have to do with HGH? I got pretty fat over Christmas. I have to lose between 5-10kg. Thats 11-22 freedom per eagel (lb).

So i ordered som HGH to help with fatloss. In the first 2-3 months (with some 2weeks break in it though) of my pcf i used GHRP-2 and that other thin "no dac" (sorry i cant access my freezer right now). You know what im talkimg about.

I had very good results on it. I bulked and even though i ate a lot, i really didnt get fat. Thats why i was so surprised how fat i got during my one moth vacation because while obviously not training and doing my cardio its not like I stuffed my self like a pig. The fact that i run my enclomiphen citrate pretty long (8weeks full dosage and then i slowly reduces the dosage the next 3 weeks) may also have played a role because it raisesed my testosteron.

But my feeling was that this came from the peptides.

So until like a couple of day my plan was to run 4IU of HGH (split into two dosages as a fat loss protocoll) for like 1-2 months.

Now i have read the horrorstory here if that guy you took HGH at the age of 19?20? Something like that for only 4months and had significant face changes.

Im a pretty guy, i really dont want to lose that.

So basiacally i want to know what your take is on this. And yes i do realise nobody can gurantee anything, everybody is different etc.
But how stupid of an idea based on risk/benefit would you rate this from 1-10?

Im like torn appart, one part of me things, thats was one single case, you are anyways playing with your natural test, hair and health/life so stop bitching
And the other part says, why would you risk getting ugly just for some fatloss.
Click to expand...
1 Question, do you have a baseline igf1 score and if not WHY??
 
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Proud Pangolin said:
So, as you guys can see am a new member. The reason why i joined is harmreduction and basiacally i should mature enough to know the answer but:

Im 23 (had two cycles, last one was 600mg test and 600mg DHB even though i started with 500mg test and 400mg DHB. At the end i threw in some tbol but only because i quit the DHB (cypionate) much earlyer but anyways thats not the topic). Right now im cutting to get ready for next cycle (600mg test and 600mg DHB as i dont see why i should change a working system and its a strong cycle anyways)

What does this have to do with HGH? I got pretty fat over Christmas. I have to lose between 5-10kg. Thats 11-22 freedom per eagel (lb).

So i ordered som HGH to help with fatloss. In the first 2-3 months (with some 2weeks break in it though) of my pcf i used GHRP-2 and that other thin "no dac" (sorry i cant access my freezer right now). You know what im talkimg about.

I had very good results on it. I bulked and even though i ate a lot, i really didnt get fat. Thats why i was so surprised how fat i got during my one moth vacation because while obviously not training and doing my cardio its not like I stuffed my self like a pig. The fact that i run my enclomiphen citrate pretty long (8weeks full dosage and then i slowly reduces the dosage the next 3 weeks) may also have played a role because it raisesed my testosteron.

But my feeling was that this came from the peptides.

So until like a couple of day my plan was to run 4IU of HGH (split into two dosages as a fat loss protocoll) for like 1-2 months.

Now i have read the horrorstory here if that guy you took HGH at the age of 19?20? Something like that for only 4months and had significant face changes.

Im a pretty guy, i really dont want to lose that.

So basiacally i want to know what your take is on this. And yes i do realise nobody can gurantee anything, everybody is different etc.
But how stupid of an idea based on risk/benefit would you rate this from 1-10?

Im like torn appart, one part of me things, thats was one single case, you are anyways playing with your natural test, hair and health/life so stop bitching
And the other part says, why would you risk getting ugly just for some fatloss.
Click to expand...
1-2 months of hgh ISNT going to do Anything!,
 
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Proud Pangolin said:
Actually i will.get my bloodwork done in 2 days igf1 included (as well as FH/FSG, freebtest,total test and SHBG just so i know my pct was a sucess). But what will my igf1 bloodlevel tell me besides where i stand naturally?
Click to expand...
i wouldn't start hgh until you have a baseline igf1 score with z score number , why would you? and honestly hgh isnt the miracle fat loss cure , everyone thinks hgh is glitz and glamour , but fail to realise that unless your dialed in with water/diet/cardio, and on it for months at the very least then you will reap the benefits, but had i to do it all over again myself i would have chose a glp1 to aid in my fatloss protocol , , Good luck on your Quest,,
 
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Proud Pangolin said:
Actually i will.get my bloodwork done in 2 days igf1 included (as well as FH/FSG, freebtest,total test and SHBG just so i know my pct was a sucess). But what will my igf1 bloodlevel tell me besides where i stand naturally?
Click to expand...
thats what you want to know is "where your igf1 is before exogenous hgh" It really sounds like you need to do ALOT more research before you do hgh, as your obviously not very versed in,, Good day,,
 
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You’re worried about face changes from 4iu of HGH but totally fine blasting 600mg DHB + 600mg Test like it’s a daily supplement? Your jawline isn’t the issue here - your blood pressure, hematocrit, and liver probably have bigger concerns.

Also, you’re 23. You don’t need HGH. Your natural production is already high, and if you actually focused on diet and cardio, you wouldn’t be in this situation. You got fat because you stopped training and doing cardio, not because peptides magically kept you lean before. HGH isn’t some miracle fat burner - it’s a long-term tool, not a quick fix.

And why is it always “I already ordered it, now tell me if it’s a bad idea”? Asking first, buying later would probably save you from a lot of bad decisions.

If I had to rate this on a scale of 1-10, running high-dose DHB without thinking about the real risks is a solid 9. Worrying about getting ugly while messing with your endocrine system? That’s a 10. At some point, you have to stop thinking short-term and actually plan ahead if you care about your health in the long run.
 
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Ateam2023 said:
i wouldn't start hgh until you have a baseline igf1 score with z score number , why would you? and honestly hgh isnt the miracle fat loss cure , everyone thinks hgh is glitz and glamour , but fail to realise that unless your dialed in with water/diet/cardio, and on it for months at the very least then you will reap the benefits, but had i to do it all over again myself i would have chose a glp1 to aid in my fatloss protocol , , Good luck on your Quest,,
Click to expand...
I do realise HGH isnt a merical cure. I have my diet and cardio dialed in, this isnt my first diet. Its just going to take me at least 2-3months to lose this weight. I think that HGH will not only speed this up but also i wont lose that much muscle. Sometimes people forget how catabolic a diet as a natural is compared to an enhanced person.


But please could you explain to me what my baseline igf1 will help/tell me? Lets say its at the upper "normal limit", what now? The fatburning effect of HGH doesnt coke primarl through igf1 (the musclebuilding effect is primary mediated through igf1 from what i understand).

Actually i have read as much as i could find about HGH in the bodybuilding context. But i would be very thankfull if you could link me some sources to widen my horizont. Im here to learn
 
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Anat said:
You’re worried about face changes from 4iu of HGH but totally fine blasting 600mg DHB + 600mg Test like it’s a daily supplement? Your jawline isn’t the issue here - your blood pressure, hematocrit, and liver probably have bigger concerns.

Also, you’re 23. You don’t need HGH. Your natural production is already high, and if you actually focused on diet and cardio, you wouldn’t be in this situation. You got fat because you stopped training and doing cardio, not because peptides magically kept you lean before. HGH isn’t some miracle fat burner - it’s a long-term tool, not a quick fix.

And why is it always “I already ordered it, now tell me if it’s a bad idea”? Asking first, buying later would probably save you from a lot of bad decisions.

If I had to rate this on a scale of 1-10, running high-dose DHB without thinking about the real risks is a solid 9. Worrying about getting ugly while messing with your endocrine system? That’s a 10. At some point, you have to stop thinking short-term and actually plan ahead if you care about your health in the long run.
Click to expand...
I totally see your point. You are right. But let me explain my view on this:

My bloodpressure actually was a problem in my last cycle. However im pretty sure this was primary due to the estrogen
(to sum it up: im a low aromatizer. In my first cycle a run 500mg of test and had absolutly no estrogen sideeffects and als no high E2 blood values. The moment i started to use HCG in my second cycle my body transformed into an estrogen machine. I got typical estrogen sides like insomnia, no appetite,bitching around like a girl on her period and well bloodpressure)

However even if i get high bp i can take some ACE inhibitors.

For my liver i can run some TUDCA,NAC and MILKSTHISTLE.

For the hematocrit i cant really do anything but as i remember correctly the biggest concer with this is bloodpressure.

But i cant take anything so my face wont grow and i develope a neaderthaler chin.

And yes, 600mg test and 600mg DHB is a heavy cycle. You may ask.yourself why im running so much, well my logic here is that im actually cycling. If i do a 16weeks cycle for example and im following the rule (1.time till the compound cleared my system (~2weeks for Ethanat),+2. 8weeks PCT + 3.time on meaning 16weeks= total time off) then im left with less than one cycle per year.
So better get anything you can get out of that cycle.

Thats why i want to really be lean when i start it, i wont do any vaccation during that and im trying to make sure i have dialed everything perfekt in.
 
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HGH will do nothing good for you if your diet isn't on point.

Type IIx is a user on here who has written the only book you will ever need to own on HGH (also cause it's probably the only one as comprehensive in existence...but I have only previewed it...I don't own it but will definitely buy it if I get back around to considering HGH)

For context, I'm in my 40s...have a boat load of HGH sitting in my fridge that I stopped once I came to my senses and realized there was a whole more I could me modifying before continuing HGH.

I added it hoping for some joint pain relief. But my diet was not on point enough to justify the increased risk at this time (even though I had zero issues...maybe some elevated BP but no fluid retention or blood sugar issues).

Some more thoughtful users on here (@readalot) and their more cautious approach to these compounds made me rethink my cavalier approach.

There is zero chance I would consider HGH at 23 (truthfully I just don't think you're going to see ANY benefit with the goals you have in mind). As for IGF-1, the shortest answer is if it's already high normal,. you will definitely see no benefit.(But again, I see almost zero chance of HGH helping for your acute cutting desires... it simply doesn't work that way...again,.simple short answers with a lot more background I would have to review to give more science).

Edit:

Bolus: The only GH book you'll ever need is NOW SHIPPING worldwide​


Yeah, I'm too dumb to figure how to link threads..maybe one day I'll add it to the repertoire but until then, best I got...lol
 
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Proud Pangolin said:
I totally see your point. You are right. But let me explain my view on this:

My bloodpressure actually was a problem in my last cycle. However im pretty sure this was primary due to the estrogen
(to sum it up: im a low aromatizer. In my first cycle a run 500mg of test and had absolutly no estrogen sideeffects and als no high E2 blood values. The moment i started to use HCG in my second cycle my body transformed into an estrogen machine. I got typical estrogen sides like insomnia, no appetite,bitching around like a girl on her period and well bloodpressure)

However even if i get high bp i can take some ACE inhibitors.

For my liver i can run some TUDCA,NAC and MILKSTHISTLE.

For the hematocrit i cant really do anything but as i remember correctly the biggest concer with this is bloodpressure.

But i cant take anything so my face wont grow and i develope a neaderthaler chin.

And yes, 600mg test and 600mg DHB is a heavy cycle. You may ask.yourself why im running so much, well my logic here is that im actually cycling. If i do a 16weeks cycle for example and im following the rule (1.time till the compound cleared my system (~2weeks for Ethanat),+2. 8weeks PCT + 3.time on meaning 16weeks= total time off) then im left with less than one cycle per year.
So better get anything you can get out of that cycle.

Thats why i want to really be lean when i start it, i wont do any vaccation during that and im trying to make sure i have dialed everything perfekt in.
Click to expand...
So let me get this straight - you already had blood pressure issues, but instead of reassessing your approach, your solution is “I’ll just take ACE inhibitors”? Solid logic. I’m sure your kidneys will send you a thank-you card.

Then there’s your liver, which you think will be fine because you’re stacking TUDCA, NAC, and milk thistle like it’s some RPG health potion combo. Meanwhile, you’re blasting 600mg DHB, a compound notorious for being harsh on the liver and elevating hematocrit, which you admit you can’t do anything about - except, oh, I don’t know, maybe not running a cycle that skyrockets it in the first place?

And then we get to the face growth paranoia - you’re cool taking ACE inhibitors, liver support, and whatever else you need to patch up side effects, but if HGH tweaks your facial structure, that’s where you draw the line? Priorities, my guy.

Let’s also talk about your first mistake - 500mg Test as a first cycle. There was zero reason to start that high. 300mg would’ve been plenty, but you went straight to blasting like you were trying to speedrun the process.

Now onto your logic about cycling - you’re running a massive cycle once a year because you think that’s safer than doing moderate doses more frequently? What exactly are you getting out of that besides a nice spike in BP, hematocrit, and liver stress all at once? You’re basically flooring the gas pedal once a year instead of pacing yourself, then wondering why the engine overheats.

As for whether HCG is needed post-cycle? After one cycle, it’s not mandatory. Some people recover fine without it, especially if PCT is done correctly (Nolva/Clomid). But if you’re constantly cycling or running heavy compounds, then yes, HCG makes recovery easier by keeping your testes responsive.

Look, nobody’s here to lecture you, and trust me, when I was your age, I also thought I had everything figured out, that my dick dragged on the floor and I was invincible. But reality hits different when the consequences start piling up. The difference is, some guys realize it before they wreck their health, and others don’t until it’s too late. Do whatever you want, but at least be honest with yourself about the risks instead of patching up one problem just to create another.
 
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Anat said:
So let me get this straight - you already had blood pressure issues, but instead of reassessing your approach, your solution is “I’ll just take ACE inhibitors”? Solid logic. I’m sure your kidneys will send you a thank-you card.

Then there’s your liver, which you think will be fine because you’re stacking TUDCA, NAC, and milk thistle like it’s some RPG health potion combo. Meanwhile, you’re blasting 600mg DHB, a compound notorious for being harsh on the liver and elevating hematocrit, which you admit you can’t do anything about - except, oh, I don’t know, maybe not running a cycle that skyrockets it in the first place?

And then we get to the face growth paranoia - you’re cool taking ACE inhibitors, liver support, and whatever else you need to patch up side effects, but if HGH tweaks your facial structure, that’s where you draw the line? Priorities, my guy.

Let’s also talk about your first mistake - 500mg Test as a first cycle. There was zero reason to start that high. 300mg would’ve been plenty, but you went straight to blasting like you were trying to speedrun the process.

Now onto your logic about cycling - you’re running a massive cycle once a year because you think that’s safer than doing moderate doses more frequently? What exactly are you getting out of that besides a nice spike in BP, hematocrit, and liver stress all at once? You’re basically flooring the gas pedal once a year instead of pacing yourself, then wondering why the engine overheats.

As for whether HCG is needed post-cycle? After one cycle, it’s not mandatory. Some people recover fine without it, especially if PCT is done correctly (Nolva/Clomid). But if you’re constantly cycling or running heavy compounds, then yes, HCG makes recovery easier by keeping your testes responsive.

Look, nobody’s here to lecture you, and trust me, when I was your age, I also thought I had everything figured out, that my dick dragged on the floor and I was invincible. But reality hits different when the consequences start piling up. The difference is, some guys realize it before they wreck their health, and others don’t until it’s too late. Do whatever you want, but at least be honest with yourself about the risks instead of patching up one problem just to create another.
Click to expand...
So to start with the ACE. Yes last time a had some bloodpresure issues. Nothing crazy biut still. Also, in some cases ACE inhibitors are harsh on the kidney but primarly for an extended use. Otherwise they wouldnt be prescribed to people with liver deseases.
Additionally there are also other bp medication and while its not ideal, its better than high bp.

Secondly i read a lot of reports about DHB and most people didnt report any effects on there liver values. And if so, nothing even near as dramatic as lets say orals.
Most of this reputation probably comes from one study where an increase of liver weight was noticed.

With the hematocrit values, well you got me here. However basiaclly all steroids raise it. EQ the most and reports about DHB are mixed. At the end you have to choose a downside. I compared multiple steroids as an option

(EQ i dindt choose because of the lomg ester,the estrogen effects and the strong hematorcrit effekt, primo is very expensive and probably the most faked steroid out there and on top of that its very bad for your hair and also you have the estrogen effect but actually was my second best choice. Everything from the 19-nor family is out of the game because it surpresses your hpta way to long)

As you can see, i thought a lot about it, doesmt mean its the right decision but was tze best from my point of view.

I will probably start donating blood in my next cycle to keep my hematocrit in line as tbh i dindt take that serious enough during my last cycle but also couldnt tell if my values were raised because i didmnt get bloodwork at the end.


As for the 500mg test, the steroid community on reddit would disagree. I went by the wiki. 300mg of test has basiacally the same sideeffects as 500mg, will also shut you completly down amd puts you somewhere between TRT and a full cycle. Their words, not mine but seems logical.

If i would have choosen to blast and cruise i surly would have started with 300mg, because in that case "i have all time in the world" but as im actually cycling thats something different and thats already your next point.


Why no more cycles witz higher frequence. You may believe me or not but that was exactly one of the questions i had before my first cycle. However the advise from the experienced users and there explanations were clear.
Steroids take time to start having an effect. I mean for test-E it takes 4 weeks to just reach max./stable blood levels. So the shortest advised cycle is most of the time 12 weeks. And this matches my experiences from my 2 cycles. I really saw and felt the difference maybe the first time after 6 weeks?

Now if you want to minimize your risk of damaging your hpta axis and therefore your natural test, you need to do a proper PCT meaning 2weeks till your system is clear, 8weeks SERMS and then the same time you were on so your body can regulate itself. Again this is from thw wiki on reddit.

As you can see it doesnt make sense to make multiple smaller cycles.

Now does this mean you should do hard cycle? Well thats a total different question.

And HCG, well my PCT was a lot easyer and its another safty messure so i want to keep it next time. The downside is the need of an AI but many already need an AI for 300mg of test, so again i have to pick my sacrafice: take an AI (another substance in your system) or have a harder PCT/greater risk for hpta damage
 
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