Howdy y'all. It's good to be back! I got to thinking over the last couple days about an IGF-1 blood test I had a few years back.
I was taking 375 mcg of Ipamorelin and 300 mcg of MOD GRF nightly. I know, it's a big dose. I would actually feel it hit me a few minutes after SQ injection, like I would get a flushing feeling and I would get really warm/hot all the sudden. I would lay in bed and put the blanket on and then after 5 mins I would be about to start sweating and would uncover myself and fall asleep, sleeping like a baby of course.
Well my blood test at the time was 330 ng/mL (range 98-282 ng/mL), so I was a decent bit over the normal range. I got to thinking though, as I don't have a great understanding of the research behind HGH and how exactly it affects the body, are there any other biomarkers that should be monitored? What exactly is HGH doing that peptides can't do?
I came across this lovely gem from our favorite anti-doping agency, WADA, which states HGH biomarkers to test for anti-doping procedures would be IGF-1 (obviously) and also N-terminal pro-peptide of type III collagen (P-III-NP aka PIIINP aka Imma mothafuckin P-III-NP). I had never heard of the second one before except in the famous song P.I.M.P by 50 Cent...so I started looking into it and basically it regulates type III collagen production, which isn't surprising given the name. Type III collagen is mainly found in hollow organs such as large blood vessels, uterus, and the bowels, as well is in other tissues together with type I collagen. I would guess HGH/peptides increase collagen synthesis across the board across all collagen types, so I am not sure why only PIIINP is chosen--as far as I can tell it seems that there are several collagen biomarkers (as one would expect), such as PINP, ICTP, MMP1, TIMP1, and PIIINP. All of which are markers for either collagen synthesis or breakdown, fibrin synthesis or breakdown, and can also be used as markers to predict cardiac events. Collagen and fibrin are separate things, read into it if you'd like.
Anyway, I digress, peptides basically cause the pituitary to produce additional growth hormone (GH). This increases endogenous levels of GH rather than adding additional exogenous GH to the body as many do simply by injecting HGH. Peptides have some advantage over other drugs, as they are highly selective in what they do to the body. For example, Ipamorelin has no effect on prolactin, FSH, LH, or TSH levels. It also does not stimulate ACTH or cortisol, essentially all it does in the body is cause the secretion of additional GH.
My curiosity was piqued again this morning when I saw someone's blood test results for HGH. Basically, based off of that and several other HGH blood test results I read through over at SST, it seems like Ipamorelin/MOD GRF can get you to about 3 IU of HGH. However, due to the short half life of these peptides, I am skeptical that my blood test results are reflective of peak levels. Peptides have very short half lives. Ipamorelin lasts about 2 hours in your system, so you are getting a huge spike for the first hour or two after dosing, then it slowly goes down and levels out until your next dose. This is in contrast to HGH, which increases levels/is detectable for 24 hours after dosing--essentially you have a larger area under the curve so it is more like a slow release than the peptides are.
So, it seems possible that ipamorelin/MOD GRF is equivalent to more than 3 IU of HGH? Like perhaps for the 4-6 hours after injecting, your serum GH levels could be equivalent to 4 or 5 IU, then for the rest of the day you are elevated to around 3 IU. Or perhaps it even drops further (my blood test was in the morning, I've never gotten IGF tested in the afternoon) so you end up with a spike to supraphysiological levels for 18 hours (or whatever) after injection, then for the rest of the day it drops to around the high end of the normal range?
What do you guys think? Why do you use HGH instead of peptides? Is it simply the dose? It is due to price? HGH is so often faked or significantly underdosed, it seems almost like peptides would be better in that regard--also because it gives you that "GH flush" feeling, you can tell within minutes whether the peptides are real or not and IMO even gauge the strength/potency to determine whether it's underdosed because if you do your usual dose of X IUs at Y mcg/mL and don't get the same "flush" then you know it's underdosed. Regardless, I get mine compounded so it's always consistent.
This post feels like it is all over the place, so hopefully y'all can make sense of it and it's interesting. I'm curious as to your thoughts on HGH vs peptides. Relative dosing equivalency between the two (specifically Ipa/MOD GRF, as that's what i have experience with and other peptides have varying effectiveness).
I was taking 375 mcg of Ipamorelin and 300 mcg of MOD GRF nightly. I know, it's a big dose. I would actually feel it hit me a few minutes after SQ injection, like I would get a flushing feeling and I would get really warm/hot all the sudden. I would lay in bed and put the blanket on and then after 5 mins I would be about to start sweating and would uncover myself and fall asleep, sleeping like a baby of course.
Well my blood test at the time was 330 ng/mL (range 98-282 ng/mL), so I was a decent bit over the normal range. I got to thinking though, as I don't have a great understanding of the research behind HGH and how exactly it affects the body, are there any other biomarkers that should be monitored? What exactly is HGH doing that peptides can't do?
I came across this lovely gem from our favorite anti-doping agency, WADA, which states HGH biomarkers to test for anti-doping procedures would be IGF-1 (obviously) and also N-terminal pro-peptide of type III collagen (P-III-NP aka PIIINP aka Imma mothafuckin P-III-NP). I had never heard of the second one before except in the famous song P.I.M.P by 50 Cent...so I started looking into it and basically it regulates type III collagen production, which isn't surprising given the name. Type III collagen is mainly found in hollow organs such as large blood vessels, uterus, and the bowels, as well is in other tissues together with type I collagen. I would guess HGH/peptides increase collagen synthesis across the board across all collagen types, so I am not sure why only PIIINP is chosen--as far as I can tell it seems that there are several collagen biomarkers (as one would expect), such as PINP, ICTP, MMP1, TIMP1, and PIIINP. All of which are markers for either collagen synthesis or breakdown, fibrin synthesis or breakdown, and can also be used as markers to predict cardiac events. Collagen and fibrin are separate things, read into it if you'd like.
Anyway, I digress, peptides basically cause the pituitary to produce additional growth hormone (GH). This increases endogenous levels of GH rather than adding additional exogenous GH to the body as many do simply by injecting HGH. Peptides have some advantage over other drugs, as they are highly selective in what they do to the body. For example, Ipamorelin has no effect on prolactin, FSH, LH, or TSH levels. It also does not stimulate ACTH or cortisol, essentially all it does in the body is cause the secretion of additional GH.
My curiosity was piqued again this morning when I saw someone's blood test results for HGH. Basically, based off of that and several other HGH blood test results I read through over at SST, it seems like Ipamorelin/MOD GRF can get you to about 3 IU of HGH. However, due to the short half life of these peptides, I am skeptical that my blood test results are reflective of peak levels. Peptides have very short half lives. Ipamorelin lasts about 2 hours in your system, so you are getting a huge spike for the first hour or two after dosing, then it slowly goes down and levels out until your next dose. This is in contrast to HGH, which increases levels/is detectable for 24 hours after dosing--essentially you have a larger area under the curve so it is more like a slow release than the peptides are.
So, it seems possible that ipamorelin/MOD GRF is equivalent to more than 3 IU of HGH? Like perhaps for the 4-6 hours after injecting, your serum GH levels could be equivalent to 4 or 5 IU, then for the rest of the day you are elevated to around 3 IU. Or perhaps it even drops further (my blood test was in the morning, I've never gotten IGF tested in the afternoon) so you end up with a spike to supraphysiological levels for 18 hours (or whatever) after injection, then for the rest of the day it drops to around the high end of the normal range?
What do you guys think? Why do you use HGH instead of peptides? Is it simply the dose? It is due to price? HGH is so often faked or significantly underdosed, it seems almost like peptides would be better in that regard--also because it gives you that "GH flush" feeling, you can tell within minutes whether the peptides are real or not and IMO even gauge the strength/potency to determine whether it's underdosed because if you do your usual dose of X IUs at Y mcg/mL and don't get the same "flush" then you know it's underdosed. Regardless, I get mine compounded so it's always consistent.
This post feels like it is all over the place, so hopefully y'all can make sense of it and it's interesting. I'm curious as to your thoughts on HGH vs peptides. Relative dosing equivalency between the two (specifically Ipa/MOD GRF, as that's what i have experience with and other peptides have varying effectiveness).
