"Holistic" TRT protocol: DHEA and Pregnenolone?

[thestruggle]

People who just blindly add pregnenolone without checking their pregnenolone LC/MS level and progesterone, then tell the internet they took an unspecified dose and say they didn’t like it really have no clue what the fuck they are doing.

It’s a hormone. You only use it if you are deficient. It will raise progesterone and other hormones as a downstream effect. Some people should take it at a dose tailored to the individual while others should not.

I need it. My pregnenolone was <10 and progesterone was 0.1, so I take 100mg micronized splits 50/50 with my first and last meals. This optimizes my progesterone level to 0.5.

Blindly taking a random dose to see what happens and then telling everyone how much it sucks is completely irresponsible when there are people out there who truly would benefit.

Few things fyi:

- Serum pregnenolone is highly fluctuating, testing is time sensitive and unreliable.

- TRT causes adrenal deficiencies for both dhea and pregnenolone. I could confirm dhea-s gradual decline over years into trt. Adding it back made wonders. People wearing expert hats think just because of aromatization, it just means more e2. False.

- Pregnenolone does not always converto to progesteone. The downstream effects are highly individual.

I could sleep after many months thanks to pregnenolone. However the dose and timing needs to be adjusted.

 

[thestruggle]

Love all the know-how experts appearing after the fact, sharing basic level info, without even reading the posts accurately

 

[NotHuman]

Few things fyi:

- Serum pregnenolone is highly fluctuating, testing is time sensitive and unreliable.

- TRT causes adrenal deficiencies for both dhea and pregnenolone. I could confirm dhea-s gradual decline over years into trt. Adding it back made wonders. People wearing expert hats think just because of aromatization, it just means more e2. False.

- Pregnenolone does not always converto to progesteone. The downstream effects are highly individual.

I could sleep after many months thanks to pregnenolone. However the dose and timing needs to be adjusted.

Yes you are right although the majority of time, Pregnenolone LC/MS is more stable when you’re not supplementing with it. Anecdotally, I have had it checked many times and it’s always low without much variance. It barely goes up even when I take it, but I see a rise in progesterone and a little in DHEA-S when I do (but I am also taking DHEA so it’s hard to tell).

There seems to be mixed evidence on whether TRT suppresses them or not. DHEA-S declines so it could just be an age related thing since people hop on TRT/AAS at an age where it tends to already decline.

With pregnenolone, there is so little data so we are relying a lot on anecdotal evidence. I have heard that heavy AAS is more suppressive of pregnenolone which may be true.

Personally, I take 100mg pregnenolone and 50mg dhea (both micronized) and divided the doses with my first and last meals.

 

[Ouch]

I’m assuming nobody in here is a scientist or a chemist but maybe you guys know….if dhea is downstream from pregnenalone why would you need to supplement the dhea? Wouldn’t taking just the preg provide enough for your body to then figure out what to do with it?

 

[unid888]

I’m assuming nobody in here is a scientist or a chemist but maybe you guys know….if dhea is downstream from pregnenalone why would you need to supplement the dhea? Wouldn’t taking just the preg provide enough for your body to then figure out what to do with it?

Converting it is not efficient and probably not reliable due to many factors, so supplementing directly works better.

 

[Ouch]

Converting it is not efficient and probably not reliable due to many factors, so supplementing directly works better.

That’s a hypothesis, sure. But is there any type of data or studies showing this? Im genuinely curious because it doesn’t really make sense why the normal conversion wouldn’t take place, assuming your body was deficient in dhea

 

[unid888]

That’s a hypothesis, sure. But is there any type of data or studies showing this? Im genuinely curious because it doesn’t really make sense why the normal conversion wouldn’t take place, assuming your body was deficient in dhea

yeah, under paywall. I remember seeing something like 500mg pregnenolone barely doing anything to dhea.
Enzymatic activity varies, and it's not unlimited apparently + pregnenolone has a lot of other pathways to convert into other hormones besides DHEA.

 

[NotHuman]

I’m assuming nobody in here is a scientist or a chemist but maybe you guys know….if dhea is downstream from pregnenalone why would you need to supplement the dhea? Wouldn’t taking just the preg provide enough for your body to then figure out what to do with it?

Good question.

The answer is that it depends. If your DHEA-S level is decent but could be a little better, then it’s possible that enough Pregnenolone supplementation could be enough to achieve that.

Unfortunately, if you take too much pregnenolone, that can cause other problems. It really comes down to the individual and that’s why checking levels before randomly supplementing is important.

That’s a hypothesis, sure. But is there any type of data or studies showing this? Im genuinely curious because it doesn’t really make sense why the normal conversion wouldn’t take place, assuming your body was deficient in dhea

Sadly, there is a huge lack of evidence when it comes to pregnenolone and there is none on TRT/AAS users. Most studies I’ve seen involve older people and schizophrenics.

 

[JulianBerick]

Last month, I added regular DHEA (25mg 2x/day) and Pregnanolone (50mg 2x/day) and i has made a huge difference on mood, energy and sleep. Maybe the energy is from the improved sleep but it is something everyone should atleast consider when starting TRT/+/++

It might be too much and I might drop it to each once a day if I stop getting benefits.

Both are not micronized and both are the Amazon Nutricost brand.

slide me the link for me bro

 

[Ouch]

Good question.

The answer is that it depends. If your DHEA-S level is decent but could be a little better, then it’s possible that enough Pregnenolone supplementation could be enough to achieve that.

Unfortunately, if you take too much pregnenolone, that can cause other problems. It really comes down to the individual and that’s why checking levels before randomly supplementing is important.


Sadly, there is a huge lack of evidence when it comes to pregnenolone and there is none on TRT/AAS users. Most studies I’ve seen involve older people and schizophrenics.

I haven’t been able to find much information either. Most dhea research is focused on perimenopausal women….which on a side note I had my wife try (not menopausal) and it definitely boosts libido like crazy, but unfortunately she can’t handle some other sides.

The only real discussions I have read regarding both preg and dhea for men on trt is just bro science. And that’s cool because we all rely on that to some degree. But I would love to see some studies done. Right now if you ask 10 guys their experience taking preg, you get 10 different answers.

 

[NotHuman]

I haven’t been able to find much information either. Most dhea research is focused on perimenopausal women….which on a side note I had my wife try (not menopausal) and it definitely boosts libido like crazy, but unfortunately she can’t handle some other sides.

The only real discussions I have read regarding both preg and dhea for men on trt is just bro science. And that’s cool because we all rely on that to some degree. But I would love to see some studies done. Right now if you ask 10 guys their experience taking preg, you get 10 different answers.

Exactly. There is so much bullshit out there, including in this specific thread. The amount of retarded posts that are littered in this thread makes it difficult for someone with no knowledge to really comprehend these hormones.

I would use Google and AI apps for better information on this. They’ll still pull some questionable sources, but at least you’ll get somewhere.

I would really just target optimal blood levels when it comes to these hormones.

I would look up a guy named David Lee, who has done a lot of of DHEA and pregnenolone videos on YouTube. I don’t think he’s always right, but I think he’s right most of the time.

 

[Ouch]

Exactly. There is so much bullshit out there, including in this specific thread. The amount of retarded posts that are littered in this thread makes it difficult for someone with no knowledge to really comprehend these hormones.

I would use Google and AI apps for better information on this. They’ll still pull some questionable sources, but at least you’ll get somewhere.

I would really just target optimal blood levels when it comes to these hormones.

I would look up a guy named David Lee, who has done a lot of of DHEA and pregnenolone videos on YouTube. I don’t think he’s always right, but I think he’s right most of the time.

Good stuff, I will check out his videos. I have a genuine curiosity about these hormones - I think it’s likely these will both become more common in standard hormone panels in the future.

I believe there is already research showing dhea may decline in a somewhat accelerated rate in some trt users (not counting natural age dropoff). But there’s much more to learn.

 

[NotHuman]

Good stuff, I will check out his videos. I have a genuine curiosity about these hormones - I think it’s likely these will both become more common in standard hormone panels in the future.

I believe there is already research showing dhea may decline in a somewhat accelerated rate in some trt users (not counting natural age dropoff). But there’s much more to learn.

Yea I have really tried to do a deep dive on them as well. The jury is still out but anyone who says you should or shouldn’t take them without any information about the individual they’re saying that to is beyond irresponsible. These are powerful hormones.

Think about how reckless it would be for someone to tell a hypothyroid patient with hashimotos that they took 150mcg of T3 and said it made them feel like shit so therefore, the hypothyroid patient shouldn’t take any thyroid medication at all either. Sounds pretty ridiculous if you think about it

 

[Ouch]

Yea I have really tried to do a deep dive on them as well. The jury is still out but anyone who says you should or shouldn’t take them without any information about the individual they’re saying that to is beyond irresponsible. These are powerful hormones.

Think about how reckless it would be for someone to tell a hypothyroid patient with hashimotos that they took 150mcg of T3 and said it made them feel like shit so therefore, the hypothyroid patient shouldn’t take any thyroid medication at all either. Sounds pretty ridiculous if you think about it

Well said and I agree 100%. And by next week there will be 5 new threads about them and ppl advocating to blindly supplement.

 

[MrCloud]

Ran 100mg dhea and 100 mg pregnenolone ed while on a 750mg test per week for 6 months. I couldnt feel a thing, they not worth it for me atm. Also im scared of getting mote acne so i decided the less compounds the better

 

[dudemos]

Interesting, I haven't checked my DHEA levels since starting TRT, but I might now after reading this. I've heard some guys find pregnenolone helpful too for similar effects. I wonder if cycling them might help avoid any tolerance issues.

 

[NotHuman]

Ran 100mg dhea and 100 mg pregnenolone ed while on a 750mg test per week for 6 months. I couldnt feel a thing, they not worth it for me atm. Also im scared of getting mote acne so i decided the less compounds the better

What were your before DHEA-S and Pregnenolone LC/MS labs before starting?