HORNY AS HELL, can someone explain this??

[RitchieC]

OK, I'm not complaining, but I am curious.

For a long time, I've been undergoing TRT. I started with Androderm patches, moved to Androgel after the Androderms started burning my skin off. I tried different dosages of Androgel before tossing them all in the trash and starting with Test Cyp. injections.

IMHO (at least in my body), there was a *world* of difference between the androgel and test cyp. I really didn't notice that much of a difference with Androgel (not enough to make it worth the hassle).

Test Cyp at reasonable to high dosages (my original T level was around 250) had a nice impact on my body composition and libido.

THEN I STARTED TAKING HCG 2X PER WEEK, at 250iu each sub-q injection. And it makes me hornier than a GOAT. Why?

I've experimented a bit with HIGH Testosterone dosages (300mg/week) before backing down. Ther higher testosterone dosages really didn't result in higher libido (for me).

Does HCG stimulate production of some other body chemical that enhances libido?

 

[mranak]

We don't seem to fully understand why hCG gives many people such positive benefits.

 

[SWALE]

...but we sure do like it.

 

[HeadDoc]

I wonder if hcg's impact on release of pregnenolone and than progesterone has something to do with this. The idea that progesterone would have some effect on male libido seems contrarian. I'll look into it.

 

[1cc]

I wonder if hcg's impact on release of pregnenolone and than progesterone has something to do with this. The idea that progesterone would have some effect on male libido seems contrarian. I'll look into it.

From the book "The Life Extension Revolution - Philip Lee Miller, MD and the Life Extension Foundation":

"Because progesterone helps to balance excessive estrogen in men, progesterone therapy frequently has the welcome effect of boosting libido and sexual performance in men"

 

[HeadDoc]

Just finished parts of the book this weekend so this is one of the sources. There is an old article around by Karlis Ullis, MD on contrarian endocrinology that I think stated the same. I really like Miller's book. Many of the guys here would get alot out of it.

 

[SWALE]

I disagree completely that progesterone "balances estrogen". In fact, it has quite the opposite effect!

Progesterone opposes DHT, and can cause gyno. How is that "balancing estrogen", or a "welcome effect"?

 

[1cc]

Swale,

For more about this check this thread.
https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134236330

 

[HeadDoc]

here's the reference to contrarian endocrinology. It was right here as an article:
https://thinksteroids.com/articles/contrarian-endocrinology-estrogen-men/

this thread was about possible explanations for why hcg raised libido and well being. The connection to pregnenolone and progesterone was suggested as the reason. Other explanations are welcome.

 

[SWALE]

I disagree with just about everything in that article.

 

[RitchieC]

well, all I can say is "if you're not using HCG on days 5 & 6 you should give it a try". Don't know how it works, but it does.

Oh, and my balls are no longer sucked up into my abdomen like they were before. They swing nice and low, like normal, and seem to be getting bigger (they shrunk and sort of pulled up and disappeared).

I do notice a slight occasional "ache", which I attribute to them "working" again.

But I have to say, I was pleasantly shocked with what it did to my libido (however it did it).

 

[HeadDoc]

I disagree with just about everything in that article.

while I see, or at least I think I do, why you would not support progesterone supplementation in men, are there conditions under which you would support pregnenolone supplementation. What I'm getting at, is or are there circumstances in which you would supplement pregnenolone directly and not just thru hcg.

 

[bigmark]

Hmmm sounds good to me is it very common for HCG to help with libido?
I noticed there is another thread questioning the opposite. It has always been my understanding it almost always helps.

 

[Matt Muscle]

Hmmm sounds good to me is it very common for HCG to help with libido?
I noticed there is another thread questioning the opposite. It has always been my understanding it almost always helps.

Yes it is very common for hCG to help with libido. What you need to be careful about is that it doesnt send you over range with T (and that is different for each individual i think) whilst you are on testosterone... as that will then decrease your libido.
Too HIGH levels of T may for some guys intially create a very high libido, but this will soon revert to many sexual problems.

 

[tres]

Hey Ritchie what is the dose of cyp u r doing?

 

[tres]

Hey Ritchie what is the dose of cyp u r doing?

 

[ciobl]

while I see, or at least I think I do, why you would not support progesterone supplementation in men, are there conditions under which you would support pregnenolone supplementation. What I'm getting at, is or are there circumstances in which you would supplement pregnenolone directly and not just thru hcg.

HeadDoc you might recall i opened a thread about low e2 and you came up with the same and interesting article from dr ullis.

the main ingredient for a healthy balance as he put it, is to keep an eye not only on test but the ratio of testosterone/estrogen/progesterone.

so the deal here is with the synthetic progesterone, not the natural. according to dr ullis the natural has many beneficial effects.
so in the meantime since his ( dr ullis ) ideas have not been corroborated we are going to sit there trying to patch the incomplete job of test cypionate with some hcg to restore our balls size ?

Can the same thing be said about test cypionate ? it's synthetic for all i know..

I'd like to have the knowledge to elaborate on this some more but i don't...i just don't see how his ideas were so vaguely called contrarian at one time..

 

[HeadDoc]

test cyp is the real thing. It's not a synthetic.. There is more to libido than testosterone alone. This thread started on the effects of hcg. It wa suffested that the hcg raised pregnenolone and then progesterone. All this hormonal stuff aside, don't discount relationshiip value and romance. I found a recent study that showed in early romantic phase of relationship, testosterone raises in females and lowers in male. The same subjects one year later show the reverse pattern. Furthermore, in early relationship, cortisol is up in males and then decreases months later.

 

[SWALE]

I would like to know if Dr. Ullis STILL recommends progesterone for men. I seriously doubt he does. None of the top guys do anymore, that I know of.

I remember reading some stuff from Dr. Ullis where he extolls the tremendous benefits of supplementing estrogen in men! I am confident he has changed hgis mind about that by now, too.

We just know more about this stuff now. I have reversed positions on several different issues already.

Progesterone is for FEMALES. And yes, it is absolutely critical it be bioidentical. Synthetic progesterones, AKA progestins, are vaso-constrictors (which is why they increase the risk of cardiovascular events), and natural progesterone has exactly the opposite effect.

 

[1cc]

Swale,

For discussion purposes only, what level of progesterone would you consider harmfull to a man?

In his book, "The Life Extension Revolution - by Philip Lee Miller, MD", which was published 2 months ago, he claims that he has no problem with progesterone being up to 2.5 times the top of the range.

Wouldn't most guys using HCG at doses higher than 100iu per day have elevated progesterone? From reading some of the posts, it seems that guys that are using higher doses of HCG seem to experience much better libido and feeling of well being.