HORNY AS HELL, can someone explain this??

[HeadDoc]

Swale,

For discussion purposes only, what level of progesterone would you consider harmfull to a man?

In his book, "The Life Extension Revolution - by Philip Lee Miller, MD", which was published 2 months ago, he claims that he has no problem with progesterone being up to 2.5 times the top of the range.

Wouldn't most guys using HCG at doses higher than 100iu per day have elevated progesterone? From reading some of the posts, it seems that guys that are using higher doses of HCG seem to experience much better libido and feeling of well being.

having done hrt with and without hcg, I can attest to its value. However, the consequences of overuse are not acceptible in the long run. Rather adding hcg beyond a minimally effective dose could prove to be counterproductive in the long run. Ullis and perhaps Miller are probably taking their comments from some papers that Ward Dean published in the late 90"s. Dean was one of the founding board members of A4M. Adding pregnenolone to supplmentation is not without consequence to the rest of an established hormonal balnce. I had to go back to rebalance dhea, E2, and total E. I wouldn't know if Dr. Ullis still believes or practices the same.

 

[SWALE]

I honestly do not know at what level progesterone becomes an issue. But I do know we should not supplement it.

 

[1cc]

I agree that elevating progesterone above the normal lab range would not be a good idea. Elevating progesterone above the normal lab range would be doing something that is not natural to the male body, regardless of whatever possible positive effects it could have.

I am using 100iu HCG per day and am happy with it. What I am confused about is that according to the study below, in order to maintain ITT at baseline, it seems like about 200iu HCG would be required per day. Unless HCG works in mysterious ways, so that the higher the dose of HCG, the more it is diverted towards pregnenolone, and the lower the dose of HCG, the more is diverted towards ITT. So, perhaps at 100iu HCG per day, one would get to baseline ITT, but any higher, and more gets sent to pregnenolone.

Does one get to baseline ITT at 100iu HCG per day?

Just some thoughts.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595

 

[HeadDoc]

good study and great question. Despite my otherwize desire for data on the topic I just used my own reaction to hcg. I felt good on hrt with test alone. I went to really good on hcg with test and just let the regular bloodwork determine the right level. I had no reason to do a sperm count or itt.

 

[SWALE]

You are not completely supressed at appropriate TRT dosing. The study was done in men who are completely supressed.

It is not a matter of diverting testosterone from ITT to progesterone.

HeadDoc's example is a good one. We do not know why it works as well as it does--but are glad it does!

 

[Matt Muscle]

You are not completely supressed at appropriate TRT dosing. The study was done in men who are completely supressed.

It is not a matter of diverting testosterone from ITT to progesterone.

HeadDoc's example is a good one. We do not know why it works as well as it does--but are glad it does!

Not completely suppressed... so this means at appropriate TRT dosing one is still producing enough LH and FSH to maintain fertilty?

 

[Matt Muscle]

Swale, how do you know if someone is completely supressed whilst on TRT? Do they still have a particular level of FSH and LH showing on thier blood tests, or can you tell by other means?

 

[coz]

Does anyone know what the symptoms are - when progesterone is too high in men ?

 

[SWALE]

Appropriate TRT should not completely suppress anyone. IOW, TRT is not birth control.