How do you transition from bulking cycle to cutting cycle?

[buzzingonaas]

We used to just call this a maintenance phase. If you're not doing this, you'll just be spinning you're wheels.

Yeah, health phase, maintenance phase, holding period, cementing phase all that terminology lol it’s important to progress and not kill yourself in the process

 

[JeffroCat]

Yeah, health phase, maintenance phase, holding period, cementing phase all that terminology lol it’s important to progress and not kill yourself in the process

I've never heard the term cementing phase. I actually kinda like it. There are entirely too many guys putting on quality weight and then going right into a cut and stripping it off of themselves.

 

[buzzingonaas]

I've never heard the term cementing phase. I actually kinda like it. There are entirely too many guys putting on quality weight and then going right into a cut and stripping it off of themselves.

Saw matt jansen explain how he does his which was interesting. He tries holding that weight and strength throughout the cruise, so you’ll obviously lose a little water but then he has his guys eat up to remain at that peak weight and keep their strength there for however long they cruise because so many people will lose that strength pretty quickly after reducing calories if they’re an advanced bodybuilder

 

[jtmarlin]

The big things you don’t want on your bloodwork are severely elevated liver enzymes (over 60s-70s), high cholesterol, extremely high LDL (2x reference range), high bp of any level, or out of range kidney markers. Get cardio implemented during health phase and treat like a pre-prep and check the bloods after 4-6 weeks of cruising to assess if 8 or 12 week cruise is better

My cholesterol is never THAT whacked on LDL (2X)... it is still well north of ref range but the HDL can drop to 30. I've become so confused on what actually constitutes kidney function problems and what just shows up in the bloods due to creatine ingestion, high protein diet, and breakdown of skeletal muscle from training.

Have any of you actually had success controlling cholesterol w/citrus bergamot?

 

[jtmarlin]

Saw matt jansen explain how he does his which was interesting. He tries holding that weight and strength throughout the cruise, so you’ll obviously lose a little water but then he has his guys eat up to remain at that peak weight and keep their strength there for however long they cruise because so many people will lose that strength pretty quickly after reducing calories if they’re an advanced bodybuilder

This is the Crux of my issue. I'm not advanced by any means but I definitely get weaker going to a cut right after a bulk. I see these natty guys talk about bulking and then cutting 20-30 pounds and barely losing a fucking rep and I am like how could they possibly do that and I am on a good amount of test and primo losing reps almost every week. Liars IMO.

 

[TurtleTank]

How many calories are you eating, OP? When you guys are talking about maintaining peak bulk calories into the cruise, how far above maintenance calories are you talking?

 

[buzzingonaas]

My cholesterol is never THAT whacked on LDL (2X)... it is still well north of ref range but the HDL can drop to 30. I've become so confused on what actually constitutes kidney function problems and what just shows up in the bloods due to creatine ingestion, high protein diet, and breakdown of skeletal muscle from training.

Have any of you actually had success controlling cholesterol w/citrus bergamot?

Citrus bergamot helps a bit. Your HDL isn’t very bad, especially as long as your triglycerides are in range.

 

[jtmarlin]

How many calories are you eating, OP? When you guys are talking about maintaining peak bulk calories into the cruise, how far above maintenance calories are you talking?

Bulking I was aiming for 4000 calories to get from 190 to 206 in 12 weeks. I'd hit near 5000 some days and high 3000s others but most of the time low 4000s. I walk about 20k steps per day for work and that helped keep the fat off. It really was a bulk without much fat. I travelled a few times to a place where I did 3000 steps per day (my dad is sick and I visited) and the weight gain would accelerate.

For the cut I put 2800 as the ceiling but my better days I'm doing sub 2500. I've cut like this in the past and with all of the walking I can lose 2-3 pounds per week if I average 2500-2800 calories.

I want to be lean for the summer so I missed the health phase/maintenance phase window with regards to cementing in the muscle gain. Next autumn I will try the bulk then cruise at bulking calories prior to a cut.

 

[jtmarlin]

I

Citrus bergamot helps a bit. Your HDL isn’t very bad, especially as long as your triglycerides are in range.

Looked at my last bloods when I was on 400 test and 250 primo and my LDL was 169 HDL 30 triglycerides 99 (which is pretty good). My liver values were ast 43 alt 56 which were both slightly over range. This was a bulking cycle and I did drink a couple of glasses of wine daily so that may have helped pushed these liver numbers up. I didn't use any orals.

When I came back to TRT on the next bloods the LDL dropped to 143 and HDL jumped to 53.

 

[buzzingonaas]

I

Looked at my last bloods when I was on 400 test and 250 primo and my LDL was 169 HDL 30 triglycerides 99 (which is pretty good). My liver values were ast 43 alt 56 which were both slightly over range. This was a bulking cycle and I did drink a couple of glasses of wine daily so that may have helped pushed these liver numbers up. I didn't use any orals.

When I came back to TRT on the next bloods the LDL dropped to 143 and HDL jumped to 53.

169 is fairly high but not the worst ever. It’s all about risk vs reward. If I saw 169 at the end of an 8 week cruise, I’d extend to 12 weeks and slam some extra EPA, Citrus bergamot, and maybe take some ezetimibe. But at the beginning of a cruise? I’d take all those same supplements and feel g2g as long as I know I’m raising cardio first couple weeks of the cycle

If I saw those liver numbers on my OWN bloodwork personally, I wouldn’t really care. Especially if I hadn’t taken any days off prior to drawing

 

[jtmarlin]

169 is fairly high but not the worst ever. It’s all about risk vs reward. If I saw 169 at the end of an 8 week cruise, I’d extend to 12 weeks and slam some extra EPA, Citrus bergamot, and maybe take some ezetimibe. But at the beginning of a cruise? I’d take all those same supplements and feel g2g as long as I know I’m raising cardio first couple weeks of the cycle

If I saw those liver numbers on my OWN bloodwork personally, I wouldn’t really care. Especially if I hadn’t taken any days off prior to drawing

Bloods came back as Marek seems to be working w/o delay again.

AST 57 - slightly out of range
ALT 48 - slightly out of range
Trig 93 - perfect
LDL - 194 high
HDL - 26 low
VLDL - 17 normal
Creatinine 1.49 slightly out of range - I'm taking 5g creatine per day so not sure how affected this is
BUN - 22 normal
GFR - 60 normal but low end of range
HCT/Hemoglobin are both midrange 48 and 15... these only climb slightly when my E2 rises and it's 14.8 using 600mg test (US pharma I have script) and 400 UGL Primo which is obviously legit here... although these bloods were taken after I began tapering down and have been at 320mg test and 240mg primo for 2 weeks

I simply cannot control my cholesterol levels w/this much gear especially using primo... part of this may be the E2 reduction as well although I feel best with sub 25 E2. I'm not really sure tho just how bad these cholesterol numbers are given I was bulking and my triglycerides are in a good range.

 

[jJjburton]

Bloods came back as Marek seems to be working w/o delay again.

AST 57 - slightly out of range
ALT 48 - slightly out of range
Trig 93 - perfect
LDL - 194 high
HDL - 26 low
VLDL - 17 normal
Creatinine 1.49 slightly out of range - I'm taking 5g creatine per day so not sure how affected this is
BUN - 22 normal
GFR - 60 normal but low end of range
HCT/Hemoglobin are both midrange 48 and 15... these only climb slightly when my E2 rises and it's 14.8 using 600mg test (US pharma I have script) and 400 UGL Primo which is obviously legit here... although these bloods were taken after I began tapering down and have been at 320mg test and 240mg primo for 2 weeks

I simply cannot control my cholesterol levels w/this much gear especially using primo... part of this may be the E2 reduction as well although I feel best with sub 25 E2. I'm not really sure tho just how bad these cholesterol numbers are given I was bulking and my triglycerides are in a good range.

They are good….much better then many others. But also could always be better

 

[buzzingonaas]

Bloods came back as Marek seems to be working w/o delay again.


I simply cannot control my cholesterol levels w/this much gear especially using primo... part of this may be the E2 reduction as well although I feel best with sub 25 E2. I'm not really sure tho just how bad these cholesterol numbers are given I was bulking and my triglycerides are in a good range.

Primo crushes my HDL and raises my HDL a good bit as well. It’s still my compound of choice for gaining size though

 

[RekTest]

Im not sure where I heard it or even if its true but after a bulk I will go into a maintenance calories and hold weight for a set amount of time to reset my bodies low and top weight, like when you bulk your body is trying to re-regulate back down to its previous “top weight” or your maintenance weight before your bulk.. holding a maintenance after your bulk resets it.

Honestly I have no idea if its bs or not but getting to and holding higher weight seems to be easier
Im no mass monster compared to alot here, Im just a 240lbs small boy.

With that, I just go down to trt with hgh while I maintain the top weight bulk before going into a cut, I cut with the same just trt/hgh

I prolly explained it terribly but I think what buzzingonaas is saying the same thing also.

 

[jtmarlin]

Primo crushes my HDL and raises my HDL a good bit as well. It’s still my compound of choice for gaining size though

Does this happen with masteron as well if you have tried? I have never used the compound but I'm not opposed to making the swap from primo to it if I feel the same but have better cholesterol.

 

[buzzingonaas]

Does this happen with masteron as well if you have tried? I have never used the compound but I'm not opposed to making the swap from primo to it if I feel the same but have better cholesterol.

I’m using mast right now but haven’t checked my cholesterol yet. I would assume it’s at least slightly better since I’m in prep doing tons of cardio