How heavy is heavy?

[chiseled21]

Many routines that include the core exercises often stress going heavy, keeping good form, and adding weight to the bar to make gains. I, like many of you guys I'm sure, am very active in other activities besides lifting(martial arts, tennis, boxing, basketball, golf, swimming etc.) With that being said after a day of major heavy bag work my max weight that I can lift per exercise is much less. So I get to the gym and do what weight I can using the 5X5 keeping good form with maximum focus although the weight is less than what I could lift if I was fresh. Over a 3 month period the weight I can lift goes up but week to week it can vary. So my question is do your muscles receive the same amount of hypertrophy with a lighter weight the day after a major cardio session as long as you are still lifting at the same 1 rep max percentage ?
example:
Fresh workout day my max deadlift is 445 and my 5X5 weight is 405

After a heavy cardio day my max deadlift is 350 and my 5 X 5 weight is 320
although the weights are the same the 1 rm percentage is equal....I expect some interesting answers to this theoritacal question.

 

[Bob Smith]

Your max is still 445, regardless of whether or not you did cardio the day before.

IMO, I would prioritize what you want to accomplish, which for me would mean seriously cutting down on the heavy bag work so I was able to lift to my fullest abilities.

 

[Girth]

I understand that you want the technical question answered, and I'll say no. The weight is a stimulus. Bigger weight, larger stimulus, regardless of the condition of your muscle/body.

But regardless of the above answer, you really need to decide what you want. I have this same problem. I too compete in sports and of course it dampens my lifting performance/progress. But right now, I still want to compete at a decent level athletically, and that means sacrificing the weights. Think of any athlete. When in season, they lessen the lifting and don't make or rarely make strength/size gains.

This will be a tough decision for you. About all I can tell you is that if you make your outside activities a regularity. Your body will adapt to that workload, and at that point, strength gains can be measured. Albeit gains from a lower reference weight most likely.

 

[MANWHORE]

That's easy .. just drop the golf and that should take care of it ..... How intense are your workouts? Do you take every set to concentric failure .. 1 rep short? .. you train with weights after the other sports? .. same day?

 

[perp69]

So how heavy of a cardio day are we talking? That must be some seriously long cardio you are doing. I do cardio after I lift and sometimes on my off days but it does not seem to affect my lifts. Maybe do after lifting if possible.

 

[chiseled21]

Thanks for the responses. This question was more of a talking point than a question that I need an answer for. Girth I think you answered it best explaining that the weight is a measured stimulus. In regards to my training my priorities have changed quite a bit in the past couple of years; especially in the summer. There was a time when all I wanted was to get huge, ripped, and strong. In order to achieve these goals I did very little of my other favorite activities besides lifting and got to what I consider good gains(from 155 and ripped to 218 with all abs still showing with a best deadlift of 445 @ 26 years old at 6'). Now I just want to maintan a weight over 205 lbs, still be athletic, and continously get stronger in the gym over time. I have found that the best workout for me is the 5X5 and DFHT; I feel that I get the most "bang for my buck" with these routines for the shorter amount of time spent in the gym. I think the main question is that if depending on CNS fatigue, muscle soreness and other variables including lactic acid build up your 1 rep max for 1 day will vary to the next. With that being said if I am still lifting at the same intensity( finishing 1 rep short of failure) the benefit of the workout should only be slightly less in regards to gains than lifting to your true 1 rep max. Lets hear some more comments, this is my favorite board and some good conversation is always nice.

 

[Madcow2]

With that being said if I am still lifting at the same intensity( finishing 1 rep short of failure) the benefit of the workout should only be slightly less in regards to gains than lifting to your true 1 rep max.

Not sure I completely understand your question and how this ties into 5x5 or DFHT where failure or training 1 rep short is not implicit but simply a condition that may arrise as a result of not achieving the specified work for the day.

It's useful to understand that recruitment of all fibers is going to happen at 50-80% of a rep maximum (whether that's a single at 50-80% or the 5th rep of a 10 rep set where that rep represents 50-80% of your current state Rep maximum after fatiguing yourself with the initial reps - and the current state thing ties into your cardio fatiguing you before lifting up above). The range of 50-80% depends upon the muscle but obviously you get the point. Anyway, once everything is recruited and working as well as possible together (synchronization as motor units drop in/out during this and synchronization is a trained skill) further demands are met by rate coding.

Rate coding is all about the nervous system and fatigue. The jist is that as you get closure to concentric failure, not only have all motor units been recruited but they are dropping out - rate coding makes up for this. Now my understanding is that at failure rate coding is increasing at an exponential rate as opposed to linear. Now I'm not an expert in this area (although this does make a lot of logical sense and I surmise it's accruate) but if the exponential relationship holds true (which is basically sky rocketing acceleration curve vs. linear which looks like an evenly sloped line) or is even remotely accurate it's pretty easy to see what the implications for fatigue are. Not that failure is necessarily bad but this is what is going on from a neural perspective.

 

[chiseled21]

Madcow you should be renamed to mad scientist; I consider myself to have a good amount of knowledge about working out but I bow to your superb explanation. Is there any book or website that explains what you said in more detail. i would love to bring up some rate coding jargan with my knuckle-dragging buddies the next time we are in an argument.