How many of you don’t come off cycle?

[PaintDrinker]

Just curious about the guys out there that never come off? I personally blast and cruise, but I’ve been hearing a lot lately about people just never coming off, maybe just lowering the dose slightly or switching compounds. What’s the reasoning and or benefits from not coming off? Obviously there’s going to be a ton of negatives.

 

[BigTomJ]

I do 20 weeks max on with blasts around a gram, maybe as high as a gram and a half at the max.

After that I cruise for a minimum of 12 weeks, then go off of bloodwork to determine when we blast again.

There's definitely guys that never come off or cruise at blast levels, maybe one day I will get to the point where I'll need to do that, but so far I've had no trouble growing and maintaining with traditional b&c

 

[Sector]

For me personally I'll have to TRT early in life anyways, and ive already done the PCT thing a few times. Never got back to my natural levels. so whether I do it now, or in 10 years, the outcome is inevitable, so why delay the invevitable? Rather have high test levels, feel good, be shredded and strong than to have low test levels with crappy "feels" and results

 

[PaintDrinker]

I do 20 weeks max on with blasts around a gram, maybe as high as a gram and a half at the max.

After that I cruise for a minimum of 12 weeks, then go off of bloodwork to determine when we blast again.

There's definitely guys that never come off or cruise at blast levels, maybe one day I will get to the point where I'll need to do that, but so far I've had no trouble growing and maintaining with traditional b&c

Very solid approach I follow a similar protocol. I always wondered what the “cruise” dose would be for some of the IFBB open guys etc

 

[saev]

Still relatively new to exogenous hormones. I've been on 240mg test c per week since December just to see if it would do anything for me. This after working with an endocrinologist all through 2023 who diagnosed me mild/partial androgen insensitive.

Ended up making more progress weightlifting in 12 weeks than most of the previous decade. My previous 1 reps/stalls were that of an equivalent female with the same time training. Now those 1 reps are 5-8 reps and I was being extremely conservative in programming due to the nature of my work outside the gym.

I don't plan to stop unless labs dictate it, and even then it'll be an extremely rough decision.

 

[BigTomJ]

Very solid approach I follow a similar protocol. I always wondered what the “cruise” dose would be for some of the IFBB open guys etc

I have several pro open friends. Lower level pros mind you, these guys aren't making top 10 at the O, but still pros.

2 follow a similar approach as I do, and another cruises on 400-500 unless his bloodwork shows he needs to come lower

 

[laclark89]

I have several pro open friends. Lower level pros mind you, these guys aren't making top 10 at the O, but still pros.

2 follow a similar approach as I do, and another cruises on 400-500 unless his bloodwork shows he needs to come lower

I think I heard that Pollock dude cruises on test 500 I think with decca and gh also lol. Dudes a little tank though, I'd never need to cruise on that, enless a tiny little dose.

I've heard lately that taller guys could benefit from a little higher doses of test than most to fill out nicely. Do you find any merit in that, or it probably just comes down to bodyweight huh?

 

[BigTomJ]

I think I heard that Pollock dude cruises on test 500 I think with decca and gh also lol. Dudes a little tank though, I'd never need to cruise on that, enless a tiny little dose.

I've heard lately that taller guys could benefit from a little higher doses of test than most to fill out nicely. Do you find any merit in that, or it probably just comes down to bodyweight huh?

I think it all boils down to individual response, coupled with how much muscle they are carrying above their sustainable base.

All I can speak of is myself personally, and the few anecdotes from bigger guys I know, since I don't personally have any clients at that freak level.

Personally for me, I can continue to progress on just 200mg of trt, albeit very slowly.
Food and training does the heavy lifting for me. But I'm also not carrying freak, or even that impressive, amounts of muscle.

The couple big guys I know that train like animals and have their food locked in 100% cruise on more than that, and really need it to maintain their size. But they have been blasting much longer than me, with a lot more muscle on their frames than me

 

[Demondosage]

One reason to come off is to save your tendons and joints, most guys I know that never take breaks or revert back to at least TRT start tearing shit (myself included)

 

[laclark89]

I think it all boils down to individual response, coupled with how much muscle they are carrying above their sustainable base.

All I can speak of is myself personally, and the few anecdotes from bigger guys I know, since I don't personally have any clients at that freak level.

Personally for me, I can continue to progress on just 200mg of trt, albeit very slowly.
Food and training does the heavy lifting for me. But I'm also not carrying freak, or even that impressive, amounts of muscle.

The couple big guys I know that train like animals and have their food locked in 100% cruise on more than that, and really need it to maintain their size. But they have been blasting much longer than me, with a lot more muscle on their frames than me

Lol u gota little body dysmorphia like the rest of us. Ur carrying a solid ass amount of muscle for ur height. We all know it's not as easy when ur over 5"11 I'd say, its not like ur 5'6-5'8 Like most guys, arnold says hes 6'2 I'd doubt he was over 6'0 most athletes hype that up.

I'm 6'3 with around a 80" wing span its always been hard for me to fill out. And by my 30's my natty t was sub 300 it took me 200mg test just to reach my previous build from my football days and plateaued at that, possibly my training is particularly responsible because I cant do hit or dc anymore due to injuries.
But I get what u mean individual responses. Do u really think non responder or poor responder to gear is a real.thing, like mabe some of ur have less receptors?

 

[jdubzzz44]

Personally for me, I can continue to progress on just 200mg of trt, albeit very slowly.
Food and training does the heavy lifting for me. But I'm also not carrying freak, or even that impressive, amounts of muscle.

Are you saying you can come off a blast down to a cruise and keep progressing?

What I’ve seen personally is best case scenario is you hold your size/strength and get a little fluffier over time pushing food on a cruise or health phase. Or you keep the same level of conditioning or even tighten up a little on a diet phase but you most certainly will lose some overall size and strength

 

[BigTomJ]

Lol u gota little body dysmorphia like the rest of us. Ur carrying a solid ass amount of muscle for ur height. We all know it's not as easy when ur over 5"11 I'd say, its not like ur 5'6-5'8 Like most guys, arnold says hes 6'2 I'd doubt he was over 6'0 most athletes hype that up.

Oh yeah I'm definitely carrying more than your average gym bros amount of muscle.
But from a competitive perspective I'm not really up there, and I'm around a lot of high level amateurs and early pros frequently.

So I'm for sure the small fish in the pond.

I'm 6'3 with around a 80" wing span its always been hard for me to fill out. And by my 30's my natty t was sub 300 it took me 200mg test just to reach my previous build from my football days and plateaued at that, possibly my training is particularly responsible because I cant do hit or dc anymore due to injuries.

I was the same way. Pushed hard into my late 20s and best I could manage was test in the low 400s with my average being low 300s/high 200s. Going on my first cycle at 28 was eye opening to how badly my low t had fucked up my mental well-being and how hard I was beating my head against my own limitations in that regard in the gym.
I scraped and struggled for every ounce of muscle pre trt.

But I get what u mean individual responses. Do u really think non responder or poor responder to gear is a real.thing, like mabe some of ur have less receptors?

I think I would be stupid to claim that there ISNT high responders and low responders.
The top Olympia guys are walking proof that high responders do exist (high responders not only meaning that they grow muscle well, but that they are resistant to health issues and sides from high doses as well)
And there are definitely some guys that get BP problems and bloodwork issues off of only a moderate dose of test.

All that being said, I've never once seen someone, claim they are "low responders" or "no responder" without one of the following also being true.

1) not taking real gear/under dosed gear/mystery sources from their buddy

2) training incredibly subpar in both programming methodology and effort

3) doesn't track meals/doesn't know nutrition at all.


Every single "non responder" I've seen very clearly lacked on their training or nutrition.


So I believe "low responders" exist in the sense that some people get way more sides on much lower doses. But I don't believe "non responders" exist in the sense that AAS don't make them grow or makes them grow significantly less than that which would be expected.

 

[BigTomJ]

Are you saying you can come off a blast down to a cruise and keep progressing?

What I’ve seen personally is best case scenario is you hold your size/strength and get a little fluffier over time pushing food on a cruise or health phase. Or you keep the same level of conditioning or even tighten up a little on a diet phase but you most certainly will lose some overall size and strength

That's exactly what I'm saying. My lifts and physique, at my current stage, continue to progress positively even on ceuise/true trt doses.

I finished my last blast right before Christmas. I also dislocated a rib at this time (why we stopped the blast) that took me out of the gym at any meaningful capacity for about 4 weeks.

In that time till now, we have dialed the food back quite a bit to give gut/digestion/insulin response/and fasting BG a break.

Despite all of that, I still hit peak blast numbers in my training with the occasional (but definitely infrequent) PR.

But like I said before, I'm not walking around at 300lbs, I'm a 6' tall 240-250lb guy that lives the lifestyle year round. I'm not suggesting this should be the case for every recreational user.

 

[jdubzzz44]

That's exactly what I'm saying. My lifts and physique, at my current stage, continue to progress positively even on ceuise/true trt doses.

I finished my last blast right before Christmas. I also dislocated a rib at this time (why we stopped the blast) that took me out of the gym at any meaningful capacity for about 4 weeks.

In that time till now, we have dialed the food back quite a bit to give gut/digestion/insulin response/and fasting BG a break.

Despite all of that, I still hit peak blast numbers in my training with the occasional (but definitely infrequent) PR.

But like I said before, I'm not walking around at 300lbs, I'm a 6' tall 240-250lb guy that lives the lifestyle year round. I'm not suggesting this should be the case for every recreational user.

Genetics will always be king sounds like you drew a lucky hand there for holding on size. Most guys will eventually deflate back to where they started if they take enough time off. But I will say the longer you hold on to size the easier it is to keep that size over time

 

[BigTomJ]

Genetics will always be king sounds like you drew a lucky hand there for holding on size. Most guys will eventually deflate back to where they started if they take enough time off. But I will say the longer you hold on to size the easier it is to keep that size over time

That's absolutely possible.
If I had to guess I'd say I have above average genetics. But it's impossible to really say since I only have me to compare to and there are so many variables at play over decades to paint the full story for a person.

 

[jdubzzz44]

That's absolutely possible.
If I had to guess I'd say I have above average genetics. But it's impossible to really say since I only have me to compare to and there are so many variables at play over decades to paint the full story for a person.

I don’t want to downplay your work ethic either I should have mentioned that previously but that will absolutely make a huge difference as well

 

[BigTomJ]

I don’t want to downplay your work ethic either I should have mentioned that previously but that will absolutely make a huge difference as well

I didn't take it that way, no worries.

It's entirely possible that I don't train nearly as hard as I think or eat nearly as dialed as I think, and just have way above average genetics.
That's what I mean is it's really hard to really compare.
Does Chris bumstead have better genetics than me? Or is he just more dialed in? (It's actually both)
What about the average gym bro. Am I bigger than him just because of genetics? Or being in gear? Or is it the training and food? Idk his story or any of that so I can't rightly say he, or anyone, has any better or worse genetics.

I'm open to the idea that I may just have better genetics and there could be guys working way harder than me.

 

[petefox]

I did 7 cycles between the ages of 25-33 and would come off and PCT. Not that it mattered as I was hypogonadal anyway ('normal' for me was 190-240ng).

I'm on 120mg weekly TRT, if I blast I tend to bump up my test and keep all androgens at 600mg per week max while letting food/rest/training do the work. I come off the blast and taper my test back to TRT level.

 

[WDE]

Very solid approach I follow a similar protocol. I always wondered what the “cruise” dose would be for some of the IFBB open guys etc

600mg-1000mg total anabolic load is a pretty standard cruise.