How much of this is spin?

[Grizzly]

That something is the Federal government and its policy of taxation and inflation. Let's take a look at a median income family of four in the 1950s. At that time, the Federal income tax amounted to only 2% of the family budget. Americans enjoyed the highest standard of living in the world.

By contrast, in the 1990s, the Federal income tax takes 25% of income for the same family of four. Taxes at all levels -- federal, state, and local; hidden and visible -- take about 50% of a family's income. We must work from January to June just to pay taxes.

source: http://lp.org/issues/family-budget.html

 

[Beefy]

That is fuuuuuucked up, man. I could be wrong, but I don't think there even was a federal income tax before WW2. It's like J DUB's said all along, the gov't is way out of line. It operates beyond the Constitution. I'm afraid it's far too late to do anything about it.

 

[Bob Smith]

There have been income taxes in the past, but it they werent implemented very often and only to pay for wars, such as the Civil War. IIRC, it wasnt until the 1920s when a permanent national income tax was passed. Fed taxes now are better than they were 40 years ago, when under Kennedy, the top tax bracket was ~90%, whereas now its about 36 or 38%.

Something else to consider, roughly 35-40% of Americans today pay no (as in ZERO) federal income taxes. The tax laws are very much tilted towards the benefit of the poor and lower class, despite what people would have you believe about the "evil rich."

 

[MANWHORE]

There have been income taxes in the past, but it they werent implemented very often and only to pay for wars, such as the Civil War. IIRC, it wasnt until the 1920s when a permanent national income tax was passed. Fed taxes now are better than they were 40 years ago, when under Kennedy, the top tax bracket was ~90%, whereas now its about 36 or 38%.

Something else to consider, roughly 35-40% of Americans today pay no (as in ZERO) federal income taxes. The tax laws are very much tilted towards the benefit of the poor and lower class, despite what people would have you believe about the "evil rich."

But the rich get richer because their lawyers know how to get them more money back. Alot of people can do the same but just don't take the time to look into it. AND never ever get taxes done by H&R block. They suck!

 

[Bob Smith]

In that regard, the "rich" do get some additional tax benefits because the rich are usually small business owners and are the ones that create jobs that employ the rest of us.

But to say that the rich get breaks on taxes are totally off base. Losing 35% of your income to tax, when 40% of Americans dont pay a dime is not the bargain that the media and Democrats want you to believe. IIRC, the top 1% of income earners pay 20% of all federal income tax. That is just absurd! The top 20% pay ~80% of all taxes. The rich are getting screwed.

 

[Millard]

Losing 35% of your income to tax, when 40% of Americans dont pay a dime is not the bargain that the media and Democrats want you to believe. IIRC, the top 1% of income earners pay 20% of all federal income tax. That is just absurd! The top 20% pay ~80% of all taxes. The rich are getting screwed.

I'm not even going to disagree with you. But point out how deceptive and misleading these stats are when making your argument...

40% of Americans don't pay any income taxes.

This is probably true. But very misleading. A more effective way to look at this would be to look at the overall tax burden. This is much more accurate reflection of tax distribution that income tax.

Top 1% pay 20% of all federal income tax. Top 20% pay 80% of all income tax

If we eliminated all forms of taxation in this country and had a single flat income tax rate of 20% for everyone, did you know that the "stats" that you cite above would remain virtually unchanged. Do you still think the "rich would be screwed" and the distribution of the tax burden would be "absurd"? I thought most conservatives would think that a flat rate would at least be fair.

 

[Bob Smith]

If we eliminated all forms of taxation in this country and had a single flat income tax rate of 20% for everyone, did you know that the "stats" that you cite above would remain virtually unchanged. Do you still think the "rich would be screwed" and the distribution of the tax burden would be "absurd"? I thought most conservatives would think that a flat rate would at least be fair.

I dont find it fair that people who earn ~$80k are considered rich. Of course, the term "rich" is very relative and often only a name for someone who earns more than yourself (which, for me, would be virtually everyone. At least for now).

I dont know if a flat tax is the best answer, but I do think it would be a step in the right direction. IMO, any person should be able to do their own income taxes on a postcard. Different tax brackets could still be used, but the rates would be lower, as in maybe 10, 14 and 17% brackets just to pick some numbers. I think the tax code should be much simpler and very straight forward. Everyone that makes the same income should pay the same in taxes.

Of course, I realize that none of my ideas would ever be implemented, but its nice to dream. Kind of like my dream of having the IRS closed, SS completely revamped and the 15 various spy agencies combined into one. And govt employees actually being paid by merit rather than years of service like everyone else is.

 

[Beefy]

Bob for President!

 

[Bedrock]

Bob for President!

Fuck that

 

[Beefy]

WWJD, bro. WWJD.

 

[Bob Smith]

Fuck that

A simple "no thanks" would suffice.

 

[Grizzly]

Apparently no one told Beefy that I don't allow open elections within the confines of my empire. Just because I like you, I won't behead you for inspiring treason, Bob. All hail Emperor Grizzly!

 

[Millard]

I really don't see how anyone could disagree with these general ideas. A simpler tax code. A revised SS. A singular intelligence agency. And especially a meritocracy! Of anything that radically restructures power within the government will meet fierce resistance.

I dont find it fair that people who earn ~$80k are considered rich. Of course, the term "rich" is very relative and often only a name for someone who earns more than yourself (which, for me, would be virtually everyone. At least for now).

I dont know if a flat tax is the best answer, but I do think it would be a step in the right direction. IMO, any person should be able to do their own income taxes on a postcard. Different tax brackets could still be used, but the rates would be lower, as in maybe 10, 14 and 17% brackets just to pick some numbers. I think the tax code should be much simpler and very straight forward. Everyone that makes the same income should pay the same in taxes.

Of course, I realize that none of my ideas would ever be implemented, but its nice to dream. Kind of like my dream of having the IRS closed, SS completely revamped and the 15 various spy agencies combined into one. And govt employees actually being paid by merit rather than years of service like everyone else is.

 

[MANWHORE]

In that regard, the "rich" do get some additional tax benefits because the rich are usually small business owners and are the ones that create jobs that employ the rest of us.

But to say that the rich get breaks on taxes are totally off base. Losing 35% of your income to tax, when 40% of Americans dont pay a dime is not the bargain that the media and Democrats want you to believe. IIRC, the top 1% of income earners pay 20% of all federal income tax. That is just absurd! The top 20% pay ~80% of all taxes. The rich are getting screwed.

I never said THE RICH get breaks on taxes. Everyone gets breaks just that the rich are smart enough to take the time or at least their accountants are. I don't know how many rich people you know($80,000yr is far from being rich)but the ones i know aren't complaining. They know how to work the system,just like the foreigners. I think all Americans should pay less tax and foreigners shouldn't get tax breaks or get any money for 7-11s when they come to this country. I think alot of things should be changed but we all know it will only get worse.