adrenalytic
Member
Do a search for HGH and Z-score. They will give you the answers you seek. And be skeptical of anyone with the "New Member" tag or disproportionately low reaction score giving you advice.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
How often do you guys take a break from HGH?
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Do a search for HGH and Z-score. They will give you the answers you seek. And be skeptical of anyone with the "New Member" tag or disproportionately low reaction score giving you advice.
Never
BALLISTIC
Member
Get your baseline labs done, IGF, z-score. Ghoul posted originally some great info and further research will guide you. Essentially a z score under 3 and your not reverting to a neanderthal. That will also vary by person. I have a buddy with a high z score and has been running high HGH without concern for years. I don't recognize any drastic change in his structural bone formation. If anything he is actually slightly feminine in some regard to his hair, skin, so on. Doesn't mean it isn't happening, just means you have a go by guideline to make an informed decision for you.
Juicedhead
Member
magnisium helps this a ton . I have said this before and everyone was saying they tried it and it worked so try it I use magnisium glycinate
Juicedhead
Member
Interesting. I have always thought some dudes get more bone growth then others from gh. Ive been on gh for years at times very high doses and my shoe size is still the same where I had a buddy whose feet literally grew in front of my eyes they started ripping out the sides of his chuck taylors and he had to get bigger shoes this happened over the course of a few months. So that z score what does that mean exactly?
BALLISTIC
Member
Z-Score
Meaning
0.0
Exactly average for your age
+1.0
Higher than ~84% of people
+2.0
Higher than ~97.5% of people
+3.0
Higher than ~99.9% of people
−1.0
Lower than ~84% of people
−2.0
Clinically deficient
Growth hormone causes your liver to convert GH^IGF-1...IGF1 is what actually drives muscle growth, fat loss, organ growth, skin, tendon, and cartilage repair, anti-aging effects. So the Zscore shows how strong your HGH signaling really is.
Raw IGF1 numbers are useless without age normalization. In an Example:
Age IGF-1 220 25 yr old
Would be Terrible, however, in a 55 yr old high tier.
Z-Score Interpretation
−2 to −1
Deficient
−1 to 0
Low-normal
0 to +1
Normal
+1 to +2
Therapeutic HGH range
+2 to +3
Strong pharma-grade response
> +3
Supraphysiologic (bodybuilder / acromegaly risk zone). I have to thank @Ghoul for this knowledge as without him I never considered a need to understand this.
This isn't actual but more of a visual to understand how it's working. It is very much individually different, but this kinda explains it in dosing. For instance my z score on 6/8iu is 2. I'm going to recheck as I've been running 10iu now. We are not all the same. Also dependant on quality and other factors of your HGH.
Daily IU
Typical Z-Score:
1 IU
+0.5 to +1
2 IU
+1 to +1.5
3–4 IU
+1.5 to +2.2
5–6 IU
+2 to +3
8–10 IU
+3+
Essential 3^ your starting to revert to neanderthal bone growth and characteristics.
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Juicedhead
Member
my igf pulled 990 on 10iu of generic. What was your igf with that z score? Is there a relation between igf levels and z score?
RockyP
Member
I had an actual deficiency when tested and originally put on GH by my HRT doctor. As such, I never come off. I run between 4 and 6 iu daily. Even at 5 iu daily on a hard cut my IGF-1 level was less than 200. Not bragging about shitty IGF-1 numbers but the point is that if you're not eating enough / looking to gain, you're unlikely to see big IGF-1 numbers. Also, IGF-1 serum numbers do not tell much of a story other than safety, meaning that you don't want an IGF-1 of 600+. You can run 18 iu of GH and have IGF-1 numbers in the normal range. Lots of this has to do with binding proteins and such. There are several links to pertinent videos including Kurt Havens and others.
BatmanVAR
Member
I'm already on it and it didn't help me at all
BatmanVAR
Member
990? You're going to look like a caveman in a year
brutalbuilt
Member
when i run out of money
BALLISTIC
Member
There is and I don't know if the equation is accurate. There's calculators available but they seem to only relate to pediatrics. If the equation is even close to accurate I'm screwed.
Level for me was 677. That was 8iu at the time. 41yoa. Generic as well, grey tops from you know who.
You can search the equation based off your IGF score and lab you use. It has mine at a +17 so reason I say it's trash. That's lab Corp conversion. You would think I was banging a club around and dragging my wife by her hair. I don't have any abnormal growth, feet, hands, face, and no stomach protrusion. I've been on 6iu for years no stop minimal dose.
I'm not contradicting z score, I just don't think it actually amounts to much validity. I'm going to get labs in the 13th, and will be interested to see, as I've never pulled the z score before at 10iu. I started researching all this because others mentioned it and curiosity took hold. So if my z score was initially low how does the equation even add up correctly.
Edit: I also didn't previously know the timeframe from injection to get full picture. Learned all that recently.
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BALLISTIC
Member
No but I see what you did there... That didn't even occur to me, never messed with.MK ?
initialize
Member
On a somewhat related note, since my IGF-1 levels have actually decreased since starting HGH (up to 6 IU) compared to my natty IGF-1 levels --perhaps because of my concomitant use of tren -- I decided to stop the HGH for a bit, at least while I'm still taking tren for the next several weeks. I'll resume afterwards and see if that helps increase my IGF-1 hopefully
oldage
Member
Yes. But if I use 2iu/day of HGH my z score is 3.3 and IGF 531. Need to be 3 or under ideally closer to 2 for anti-aging and to avoid acromegaly.
To much IGF leads to a host of side effects, insulin resistance, faster growth cancer, acromegaly, enlarged organs...... Plenty of risk with GH.
oldage
Member
I have risk at only 2iu units. 3.3 z score
Let me remind you, before I ever touched GH my baseline IGF-1 was 84. At 4iu per day, my IGF-1 went up to around 762 with a Z-score of 7.3. I don’t remember the exact duration, but it was probably in the 2-3 month range. Nothing extra decided to grow, at least nothing noticeable. The only real side effect was a mild, annoying pressure in my head.
Realistically, for actual structural changes to happen, you’d need to sit at elevated IGF levels and a Z-score like that for years, not a few months. If you run GH in blocks like I do, roughly 6-7 months on and then 2-4 months off, in theory the risk should stay relatively low.
That said… it’s still theory. Biology doesn’t always follow logic, so the body always gets the final vote.
Realistically, for actual structural changes to happen, you’d need to sit at elevated IGF levels and a Z-score like that for years, not a few months. If you run GH in blocks like I do, roughly 6-7 months on and then 2-4 months off, in theory the risk should stay relatively low.
That said… it’s still theory. Biology doesn’t always follow logic, so the body always gets the final vote.
I know. HRT is not high dose for BB.
Btw. We both could inject 3.6iu and have diff readings. So also control igf regularly esp. Long time use as for HRT.(common sense)
IGF-1 and Risk of Morbidity and Mortality From Cancer, Cardiovascular Diseases, and All Causes in EPIC-Heidelberg - PubMed
This large population-based prospective study showed that both individuals with lowest and highest levels of circulating IGF-1 were at increased risk of deaths from cancer, CVD, and all causes. For individuals with low IGF-1, the excess risks of death were more pronounced among individuals with...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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