Both
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
[HPLC/MS] AP Test E + NPP
- Thread starter dmt31
- Start date
Low by who's standards? At 200 mg/wk I came back over 1000 ng/dl. that is dose x5. The refererence range is 350 - 1100 so as far as a doctor is concerned that is actually on the high end.
there is NOT a universal range that is good. that is my point. I know many people on TRT and the blood work is all over the place. If it was that objective doctors wouldn't need to continue to blood test their patients. they would just issue the same generic dose to everyone. That is why when I come here and people spew this 10x rule it just makes my blood boil. It has no basis.
I am not saying that blood work is useless, in cases like mine where I have an accurate value to compare to, I can judge UGL testosterone, I know roughly the range that 200 mg of accurately dosed testerone puts ME. A lot of people don't have a reference point, they just see they don't hit dose x some generic value and everyone flips their shit.
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johnnyBALLZ
New Member
Doctors rarely draw bloods for TRT at peak times.. How long after inject are your bloods usually drawn?
I have had them drawn at 48 hours, 96 hours and 7 days (before next shot).
At 200 Mg/wk I have come back at upper 1000's- 1400's @ 48 hours, low 1000's in the one test I took at 96 hours and 714 on the test I took at day 7.
The higher numbers were the tests (1400's) where my estrodial was too low (below 10 pg/ml). I had to adjust my AI dose.
A friend of mine on the same TRT- his numbers came back around 1600 (dose x8) @ 48 hours post injection. Another friend of mine on a 10 day shot that he gets at his doctors office tested 24 hours post injection and it came back 2200! They retested him on day 10 before shot and it came back low 700's. His estrogen was also off the charts.
I think we can make some conclusions, like when somone is on a gram of test and their bloods come back at like 2000 or soemthing like that. But if someone is on like 500 mg/wk and they come back at 2500, I am sorry but you can't conclude it is under dosed based on that.
If someone has TRT values to compare UGL to that is always better. that is how I personally know a UGL is under dosed (and I have tested them ).
If someone has TRT values to compare UGL to that is always better. that is how I personally know a UGL is under dosed (and I have tested them ).
insertnamehere
New Member
I'm on 120mg per week with 500iu hcg. I get mine drawn at 36hrs with at TT of 1200-1400.
@jackmeoff1 what is your hcg dose and pinning schedule for test and hcg?
@jackmeoff1 what is your hcg dose and pinning schedule for test and hcg?
MoriorInvictus
New Member
I personally believe there are many factors that determine your TT levels vs dosage.
Age, Weight, Health, Genetics, body fat %.
To many factors to simply put out a blanket statement rule of "10x". That just doesn't seem logical to me...
Age, Weight, Health, Genetics, body fat %.
To many factors to simply put out a blanket statement rule of "10x". That just doesn't seem logical to me...
I have played with once per week and twice per week injections. Now I am doing twice per week. Mon- 100 mg cyp + .25 mg Adex, Wed- 300 IU HCG, Thurs- 100 mg cyp+ .25 mg adex, Sun- 300 IU HCG.
When I did once per week I just did all 200 mg on Monday and kept everything else the same as above.
There's a meso members here who was on 300 mg of test (I think) his numbers came back at 9 or maybe 10x on ugl.
Maybe you should see his guy and leave your trt dr alone.
If your coming back with numbers 5x then there's something wrong with your protocol.
I can tell you this...myself and a few members bought mikestrong gear. No one came back with numbers over 5x.
Maybe you should see his guy and leave your trt dr alone.
If your coming back with numbers 5x then there's something wrong with your protocol.
I can tell you this...myself and a few members bought mikestrong gear. No one came back with numbers over 5x.
Yeah, I don't know man. It comes from APS pharmacy. And my friend uses the same exact doctor, same pharmacy and his numbers come out higher. I am not questioning it's dosing. I have run UGL on top of that and my bloods were consistent (i.e. 700 mg/wk- 500 UGL and 200 pharma) put me at 3300. I have tested one other UGL and it was a little less where I concluded that UGL was likely under dosed.
Either way, you are missing the point completely. I know people teset at dose x10. I also know that people test at dose x7 or dose x5. There is NO rule. It is all over the place. that is why when you first start TRT doctors will test you often to get you dialed in.
MoriorInvictus
New Member
I know bro. But people preach it that way.
Me personally the 1 time I did run my bloods to find out what my TT levels were at (on cycle). If I remember right it was about 7x.
No....
I'm not missing the point
● I know test numbers vary, due to age weight, dosing, etc....●
This thread is about viewing the MS/LC data and how to comprehend it and use it as a tool.
@Boilermech made a statement about ugl sending in samples.
@mghoward74 replied about how we want ugl's to send in samples and that our bloodwork is part of the checks & balances to keep ugl on the up & up. (Basically)
The "Rule" we go by is set forth by a Dr. who specializes in TRT and blah blah blah ( no disrespect Mr. Sally ). I feel since your numbers don't particularly match up, you're on the defense about the 10x protocol.
12x is the highest Dr Sally has seen...7x-10x being the norm. Do you think these were due to UGL or Human Grade testosterone.
I know it's NOT ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. As long as YOU feel great and in a better place because of your treatment....Then You Win = SUCCESS
I'm not missing the point
● I know test numbers vary, due to age weight, dosing, etc....●
This thread is about viewing the MS/LC data and how to comprehend it and use it as a tool.
@Boilermech made a statement about ugl sending in samples.
@mghoward74 replied about how we want ugl's to send in samples and that our bloodwork is part of the checks & balances to keep ugl on the up & up. (Basically)
The "Rule" we go by is set forth by a Dr. who specializes in TRT and blah blah blah ( no disrespect Mr. Sally ). I feel since your numbers don't particularly match up, you're on the defense about the 10x protocol.
12x is the highest Dr Sally has seen...7x-10x being the norm. Do you think these were due to UGL or Human Grade testosterone.
I know it's NOT ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS. As long as YOU feel great and in a better place because of your treatment....Then You Win = SUCCESS
I_know_nothing
New Member
@mghoward74 You say it's not about the numbers but more about "how you feel", so why do members attack sources who don't get 10x blood levels when there are plenty of examples of people on actual TRT pharma who don't even get close to that?
but this thread isnt about that, it's about the data dmt posted. like flenser said, wtf do they have 2 BA standards. are they calling the illegal shit "BA" as a disguise or something? regardless the compound would not elute that fucking early at 2.5mins. the hplc's dont make sense, there's not enough actual data to draw any conclusions about purity or concentration from the data given
but this thread isnt about that, it's about the data dmt posted. like flenser said, wtf do they have 2 BA standards. are they calling the illegal shit "BA" as a disguise or something? regardless the compound would not elute that fucking early at 2.5mins. the hplc's dont make sense, there's not enough actual data to draw any conclusions about purity or concentration from the data given
Scally made that comment based pure observation. I actually agree somewhat (not that he needs me to). Observing bloods on TRT forums, at least guys on injectable dose, test at dose x7 fairly often. My numbers are on the low end from what I can tell but NOT unheard of. Also from what I can tell, dose x10 is just as rare as dose x5 though.
My original comment to you was in reply to your quote "bloodwork is definitive". If you accept that there will be variation, what exactly do you mean by definitive? Dose x5 and dose x 10 is a large deviation but not at all impossible. that is just the mentality I see here at Meso that grinds my gears. Someone tests at dose x6 and everybody is like fuck that source, ask for a refund and it just snowballs into this huge thing where 98% of sources on here are basically repped as being shit. To be honest I think it is just unfair in most cases because you aren't using something as quantifiable as you assume.
Not that I don't appreciate the diligence from this forum because I do.
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I_know_nothing
New Member
This is very true, if we consider 6-7x average then 9-10x is just as likely as 4-5x. people react fucking differently the fact that labs get fucked for 6-7x because it's not 10x when there's TRT patients with 6-7x is ridiculous. i too appreciate the diligence from the forum, but you gotta be fair about it. This seems to be brought up a lot, if you are gonna judge, judge fairly.
Boilermech
New Member
How about this then. HPLC is definitive. End of story [emoji12]
Edit: as long as the lab analysis was done correctly.
insertnamehere
New Member
@jackmeoff1 will you please post some of your TRT blood work? It would be a nice contribution and provide another data source for reference.
I_know_nothing
New Member
I agree, the hard part is finding that accurate lab analysis. The one reposted by DMT is insufficient, there's much more that goes into an HPLC analysis than throwing up a graph that has "100%" somewhere on the graph. HPLC is only definitive for that particular batch too, is it a good indicator that the source has good gear? Possibly, likely in fact . Is it an indicator that the source will always have good gear? Absolutely not.
