HRT for life at 24?

[cutler91]

i'm 24 and was on about 750-1000mg/wk of test and trenbolone for 2 years straight, no break. i came off march this year (now off about 14 weeks) and did hcg and nolva/clomid therapy w/ some arimidex afterwards.

blood test results:
prolactin 11.6 ug/L (<21)
estradiol 171 pmol/L (<200)
random test 19.1 nmol/L (range 8.0-29.5)
free test 50.3 pmol/L (range 30-130)

now the problem is i have zero sex drive and haven't had morning wood since the stone age. cialis and viagra work to a degree but don't help the drive. the hcg worked fine, my testicles are bigger than ever but i'm still really shut down.

my question is how long should i wait and see if i'll come back naturally, before trying TRT. i can't take this for much longer, i'm gonna snap very soon

thanks

 

[mranak]

Edit: PM me instead of responding in public, if that is what you prefer.

You shouldn't even be thinking about HRT at this time. You are having to adjust to much lower serum testosterone levels. The drastic decline itself can explain why you feel so down. It is like withdrawl, if you will.

Explain everything that you did starting immediately after your last injection. When did you start the hCG, how much/how often did you use it. Did you discontinue the hCG prior to PCT? What was your PCT regimen and when did PCT start?

 

[cutler91]

thanks for responding.

i started hcg 2 weeks after my last injection (beginning of march). i did 1000iu's Mon, Wed, Fri for 3 weeks straight. I also did 20mg nolva/25mg clomid per day. After the 3 weeks I continued the serms for an additional 2 weeks. Then i stopped everything. So technically i've been off hcg, serms since mid april.

i think the tren really shut me down hard and because i was on for so long im guessing i may have f*cked my hpta permanently. I can't go through six months of feeling like this bro i'd rather just go on replacement. I'd like to go natural but this just ain't worth it you know?

 

[Kroms_laugh]

thanks for responding.

i started hcg 2 weeks after my last injection (beginning of march). i did 1000iu's Mon, Wed, Fri for 3 weeks straight. I also did 20mg nolva/25mg clomid per day. After the 3 weeks I continued the serms for an additional 2 weeks. Then i stopped everything. So technically i've been off hcg, serms since mid april.

i think the tren really shut me down hard and because i was on for so long im guessing i may have f*cked my hpta permanently. I can't go through six months of feeling like this bro i'd rather just go on replacement. I'd like to go natural but this just ain't worth it you know?

You're right... it's a very good possibility that you've permanately damaged your HTPA. Being at supraphysiological levels for 2 years will do that to anyone's endocrine system. Find a liberal endo/uro and pursue some form of therapy. But definately get your general health check first; find out if you have any pituitary anomalies, prostate exam, etc. It'll be expensive, but you'd rather know, wouldn't you?

 

[Random987]

Based on my uninformed opinion, it doesn't appear you are completely shut down. You are still producing test. Did you get LH and FSH tested?

I agree that you should see a knowledgable and sypathetic Endo/skilled GP, but don't worry, your numbers don't seem that out of whack.

i'm 24 and was on about 750-1000mg/wk of test and trenbolone for 2 years straight, no break. i came off march this year (now off about 14 weeks) and did hcg and nolva/clomid therapy w/ some arimidex afterwards.

blood test results:
prolactin 11.6 ug/L (<21)
estradiol 171 pmol/L (<200)
random test 19.1 nmol/L (range 8.0-29.5)
free test 50.3 pmol/L (range 30-130)

now the problem is i have zero sex drive and haven't had morning wood since the stone age. cialis and viagra work to a degree but don't help the drive. the hcg worked fine, my testicles are bigger than ever but i'm still really shut down.

my question is how long should i wait and see if i'll come back naturally, before trying TRT. i can't take this for much longer, i'm gonna snap very soon

thanks

 

[pmgamer18]

If you get your E2 Estradiol down your T levels will go up 200 to 300 points I would try this frist before trying TRT for life.
http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm
I use this to keep my E2 in check.
http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html
Phil

 

[Matt Muscle]

i'm 24 and was on about 750-1000mg/wk of test and trenbolone for 2 years straight, no break. i came off march this year (now off about 14 weeks) and did hcg and nolva/clomid therapy w/ some arimidex afterwards.

blood test results:
prolactin 11.6 ug/L (<21)
estradiol 171 pmol/L (<200)
random test 19.1 nmol/L (range 8.0-29.5)
free test 50.3 pmol/L (range 30-130)

now the problem is i have zero sex drive and haven't had morning wood since the stone age. cialis and viagra work to a degree but don't help the drive. the hcg worked fine, my testicles are bigger than ever but i'm still really shut down.

my question is how long should i wait and see if i'll come back naturally, before trying TRT. i can't take this for much longer, i'm gonna snap very soon

thanks

After being on that much testosterone for 2 years and completly shutting down your production of gonadatrophins and other things and then expecting your body to bounce back to normality in 14 weeks is jumping the gun in my opinion. It can take more than a year for some guys to return to normal. Your T production is coming up by the look of your numbers. Thinking of a life on TRT at your age and after that time frame off steriods is a big mistake. You have abused your body and unfortunatly now you have to pay the price of feeling like crap until your body recovers its intricate balance of hormones...
Of course there is the possibilty you have permantly suppressed your HPTA... but you cannot know for sure for until you have given your body ample time to recover.
Who knows what high doses of testosterone do to your receptors long term... it could also take them quite some to time to become sensitive again to "normal" levels of T.

 

[SWALE]

One thing that would have helped would have been to taper your SERM's down.

I owuold have administered a diffeent protocol for you, but that's just me.

For guys who are really that bad off, I am willing to begin low-dose TRT, then a trial of abstinence.

 

[mranak]

i started hcg 2 weeks after my last injection (beginning of march). i did 1000iu's Mon, Wed, Fri for 3 weeks straight. I also did 20mg nolva/25mg clomid per day. After the 3 weeks I continued the serms for an additional 2 weeks. Then i stopped everything. So technically i've been off hcg, serms since mid april.

So you were injecting hCG and taking the SERMs at the same time? That's wrong. Even before SWALE enlightened AAS users to using hCG during the cycle rather than after, the old protocol was to use hCG after the cycle but before the PCT started.

I recommend the standard PCT regimen (different than what you used), which I will PM to you. I don't think the SWALE is crazy about the higher dosages used in the beginning, but it seems to work very well for the AAS community as a whole. Either way, SERM dosages should be tapered.

 

[cutler91]

thank you all for the replies.

mranak: thanks for the pm. i wasn't using liquid nolva, just the 20mg tabs. i see that i should've tapered down the clomid.

i'm getting my blood tested this week again for test, e2, fsh, lh, dht. depending on the results, i'm leaning towards swale's advice of low dose test to see if things improve and then a period of abstinence.

keep in mind i was on tren for 2 years straight. apparently there was a copy of a study along with a few supporting studies in MD magazine from a few years ago. the studies were not 100% conclusive but they presented strong evidence that nandrolones desensitize the leydig cells to LH. so while the clomid may fully restore the hypothalamus and pituitary part of the axis leading to normal LH and FSH levels, the testicles do not respond to LH so T production remains low despite full recovery of all other hormone values.

i've spoken to others and read countless accounts of those who have been f*cked up by using nandrolones (deca, tren, fina) over lengthy periods of time. some of them remain shut down for a year or more and recover, some never do.

hopefully my doc/endo will be sympathetic.

 

[mranak]

Depending on the patient, I believe that SWALE might slowly taper you off of the testosterone.

Personally, I think that it is premature to use a low dosage of testosterone. I think that another round of PCT _or_ using hCG might be more condusive to recovery. Using testosterone in an attempt to recover is a bit of an art. I would trust SWALE to do it, but I don't think your endo or yourself have the practical experience to do it yourselves.