I need to lock in … again. Long term planning advice please.

[RzSco]

I am 188cm at 75kg LBM 15kg fat, on 166mg of test per week perma cruise. 32 years old.
This seems fine to maintain. I only workout 3 hours a week at the moment basically one set to failure on all muscle groups twice a week as a full body workout and eating at maintenance.

Is it realistic to expect to add 20% to all my upper body measurements, 10% to lower body measurements, and reduce body fat to 10-12% from here and what kind of overall body weight and steroid dose (the dose to get there AND the maintenance dose to stay there) would I need? How long would it take? 2-3 years?

Also if I only can train hard on the four consecutive days Friday-Monday, how would you split the training? I could do some easy workouts on the other 3 days. Say a time budget of 90 minutes on the 4 days and 30 minutes on the other three with a fairly high probability that I skip workouts on those days due to running late or too tired.

 

[dinfar1337]

I am 188cm at 75kg LBM 15kg fat, on 166mg of test per week perma cruise. 32 years old.
This seems fine to maintain. I only workout 3 hours a week at the moment basically one set to failure on all muscle groups twice a week as a full body workout and eating at maintenance.

Is it realistic to expect to add 20% to all my upper body measurements, 10% to lower body measurements, and reduce body fat to 10-12% from here and what kind of overall body weight and steroid dose (the dose to get there AND the maintenance dose to stay there) would I need? How long would it take? 2-3 years?

Also if I only can train hard on the four consecutive days Friday-Monday, how would you split the training? I could do some easy workouts on the other 3 days. Say a time budget of 90 minutes on the 4 days and 30 minutes on the other three with a fairly high probability that I skip workouts on those days due to running late or too tired.

at 188cm with a dosage of testosterone that gets you around 1000ng/dl at your height you could easily become 90-100kg lean.

training wise just do whatever you like where you can go hard as fuck with adequate volume; think bro split with like 10-15 sets per muscle group and add few sets to shoulders on chest/back day. to suit your 4 days or u can do something like a push pull legs + a upper day of your choice.

now at 75kg lean body mass and 15kg fat you're 90kg with which would place you at 16.6% bodyfat.

gaining 20% to your upper body and 10% to your lower body would be a increase in muscle mass by 13kg just going from numbers. while losing 6% fat so even more muscle mass need to be added just going from numbers.

i highly doubt it but you're looking at a very ambitious goal of 5kg muscle added a year + dropping 1-2kg fat a year so your goal would obviously either be maingaining or bulk&cut.

now onto your main question; is it possible? i highly doubt it in 2-3 years but its not impossible. maybe a more realistic goal is 3-5 years.

 

[RzSco]

I was thinking an immediate cut of 8-10 weeks then 3-4 cycles of 20-30 week bulk and 8-10 week cut. Basically going between 10% and 16% body fat repeatedly. Or in other words going between 80cm and 90cm belly circumference. Currently at 90 which is 35 inches, fucking disgusting.

If I wanted to speed up the overall timeline, what would be the most intelligent times to blast, and what should I blast?

I’ve had success with recomping on Tren in the past but I’m not sure using the gear on the cutting part is the most efficient.

However last time I tried to bulk I just got fat despite taking 600+600 of test and deca. Which really points to my training not providing enough stimulus as clearly the food was there, including 200-300g protein and the drugs were there.

Should I consider taking HGH at some point in all of this? Or at least the MK677+CJC thing that increases natural HGH and IGF.

 

[dinfar1337]

I was thinking an immediate cut of 8-10 weeks then 3-4 cycles of 20-30 week bulk and 8-10 week cut. Basically going between 10% and 16% body fat repeatedly. Or in other words going between 80cm and 90cm belly circumference. Currently at 90 which is 35 inches, fucking disgusting.

If I wanted to speed up the overall timeline, what would be the most intelligent times to blast, and what should I blast?

I’ve had success with recomping on Tren in the past but I’m not sure using the gear on the cutting part is the most efficient.

However last time I tried to bulk I just got fat despite taking 600+600 of test and deca. Which really points to my training not providing enough stimulus as clearly the food was there, including 200-300g protein and the drugs were there.

Should I consider taking HGH at some point in all of this? Or at least the MK677+CJC thing that increases natural HGH and IGF.

40mins-1hour cardio everyday.
hgh if u want
i cant stress it enough dont overcomplicate training just go in with the intention to go fucking hard
cut your calories to a point where you can still go haard but do enough cardio to lose fat. then keep doing the same on bulk. dont stress changes on the scale you want to see a difference in the mirror

 

[Oldhand]

The gear matters but you are going to get the changes you want through your diet. I’ll give some opinions but diet is #1.

IMHO I would cut as much BF% as I could first. Big healthy fat cells create the enzyme aromatase. Less fat typically means no/less AI, or just being able to use eq/mast/primo to manage E a little bit.

You ARE going to lose a little size just by cutting. Any AAS will help preserve muscle on a cut, but most agree tren is the best at this. It was invented to get cattle to market without losing weight after all. I would suggest low test and tren during the cut. You can add another compound or an oral but since you are looking at bulking right after, don’t treat this like a contest prep cut.

You asked when to blast. My opinion is during a bulk. You can try EQ. This is a slow lean gainer and no water retention. The dose has to be high and the cycle length must be long. I personally love test/eq/deca for a bulk. If mentioned feeling “fat” on deca… prob water retention. You can always try another compound or increase the EQ…. Watch your red blood cell count on EQ.

 

[Oldhand]

Oh I forgot about the HGH question.

In my experience HGH is not cost effective. It works but it’s expensive, it has to be ran 6 minimum (why not just say for years at this point), and the IU dose has to be sort of high.

If you have Scrooge McDuck type money go for it. If not, spend the money more wisely. Reta, Sema, Tirz, DNP…. Or just better quality food.

 

[RzSco]

I think EQ might be dangerous for me considering that I already have HCT issues. Test + Primo might be the best bulk stack for me based on prior experience the Primo acts like AI so I can put the test pretty high. I’ve also some injectable DBOL that needs used.

For cutting I’d have to buy Tren but I do have some anavar I could use.

I’ll save HGH for a couple years from now. It’s probably not needed at the moment.

My diet is probably as good as it gets now, all organic food and 200-300g of protein a day. I used chatGPT to design a complete diet for micronutrients and then add carb and protein foods on top to hit macro and calorie targets.

 

[Gatman]

it all boils down to what are you trying to accomplish…and those goals will change as you age…myself at age 57 (next month)….just trying to keep what i got as long as i can

 

[Oldhand]

I think EQ might be dangerous for me considering that I already have HCT issues. Test + Primo might be the best bulk stack for me based on prior experience the Primo acts like AI so I can put the test pretty high. I’ve also some injectable DBOL that needs used.

For cutting I’d have to buy Tren but I do have some anavar I could use.

I’ll save HGH for a couple years from now. It’s probably not needed at the moment.

My diet is probably as good as it gets now, all organic food and 200-300g of protein a day. I used chatGPT to design a complete diet for micronutrients and then add carb and protein foods on top to hit macro and calorie targets.

Yeah, good call avoiding the EQ then of course!

Hey, I’ve never used primo for a bulk. How many MGs a week are you playing on pinning?

 

[RzSco]

it all boils down to what are you trying to accomplish…and those goals will change as you age…myself at age 57 (next month)….just trying to keep what i got as long as i can

That’s very true. I really want to build a great body now before it is too late.
Honestly I would be very pleased and surprised if I lived to 57!

Yeah, good call avoiding the EQ then of course!

Hey, I’ve never used primo for a bulk. How many MGs a week are you playing on pinning?

Not sure, I’d have to dial that in. My cycle logs say 400 test 250 primo had estrogen sides so I’d probably be looking at more of a 1:1 split. Maybe 250/250 to start with.

 

[Oldhand]

Gotcha. Let us know how 1:1 treats you later on.

 

[RzSco]

Gotcha. Let us know how 1:1 treats you later on.

Honestly it’s the workout programming that’s troubling me.
Scheduling four consecutive days is really tough.

I could do push pull push pull (with leg stuff) but that’s only 48 hour recoveries.

I could do a bro split but that’s only once a week.

I could do upper workout on Mondays and Fridays and lower during the weekend to get 2x a week and 72h rest but that upper workout is going to be ridiculously long. Split into AM and PM push/pull maybe?

 

[Gatman]

Honestly it’s the workout programming that’s troubling me.
Scheduling four consecutive days is really tough.

I could do push pull push pull (with leg stuff) but that’s only 48 hour recoveries.

I could do a bro split but that’s only once a week.

I could do upper workout on Mondays and Fridays and lower during the weekend to get 2x a week and 72h rest but that upper workout is going to be ridiculously long. Split into AM and PM push/pull maybe?

yep used to do the marathon workouts hour or longer….now i work one body part per day exception bi and tri same …mostly super sets minimal rest between

but here’s the deal…life happens.. some weeks i can be on schedule some can’t…but imo that’s a good thing changing up…mornings afternoons nights ect

again as you age your routine and goals will change

 

[Oldhand]

Totally agree with Gatman here.

We all used to work out at school, then after work…. I looked up one day and it was just me.

Now I wake up at 4am and go before work. Nothing can screw up my workout if It is prioritized to be the first thing I do everyday.

 

[dinfar1337]

may this never be me.

if i get paralyzed may my caretaer take me to gym
if i get a wife may she take me to the gym
if i get children i will bring them to the gym
if i get a cat i will bring it to the gym
if i get 20 hours workday i will bring the gym to the work.

may my motivation stay unfaltered no matter what happens and not make excuses because i am old. may i be the cool 70 year old yapper in the gym hopefully

 

[RzSco]

may this never be me.

if i get paralyzed may my caretaer take me to gym
if i get a wife may she take me to the gym
if i get children i will bring them to the gym
if i get a cat i will bring it to the gym
if i get 20 hours workday i will bring the gym to the work.

may my motivation stay unfaltered no matter what happens and not make excuses because i am old. may i be the cool 70 year old yapper in the gym hopefully

Idk, if you are happy with your current size you can maintain on much less volume than if you’re trying to grow.

I am not gonna cop out at 31 though and I’m certainly not happy with current size. Quite happy to spend 8+ hours a week if I get results.

 

[Gatman]

Totally agree with Gatman here.

We all used to work out at school, then after work…. I looked up one day and it was just me.

Now I wake up at 4am and go before work. Nothing can screw up my workout if It is prioritized to be the first thing I do everyday.

i am a firm believer that a set scheduled workout week after week is a hindrance in the long run….your body will get used to it….and it’s all about shocking the muscles imo

if you’ve been doing chest on monday’s at 6pm since you can remember…next time try chest at 8am on a wednesday…..either one or two things will happen you will be stronger or weaker…..

both are a good thing…adjust accordingly

 

[RzSco]

i am a firm believer that a set scheduled workout week after week is a hindrance in the long run….your body will get used to it….and it’s all about shocking the muscles imo

if you’ve been doing chest on monday’s at 6pm since you can remember…next time try chest at 8am on a wednesday…..either one or two things will happen you will be stronger or weaker…..

both are a good thing…adjust accordingly

I’m just conscious that some things might not work and I’ve not got a lot of time to waste really. As I’ve learned in the past, ineffective workout means your bulk turns into a fat gain cycle and the next cut leaves you with less muscle than you had at start of your bulk. I really don’t want to do it again.

 

[PopeyeTheSailerDude]

i am a firm believer that a set scheduled workout week after week is a hindrance in the long run….your body will get used to it….and it’s all about shocking the muscles imo

if you’ve been doing chest on monday’s at 6pm since you can remember…next time try chest at 8am on a wednesday…..either one or two things will happen you will be stronger or weaker…..

both are a good thing…adjust accordingly

Shock the muscle by confusing it lol…

 

[Gatman]

Shock the muscle by confusing it lol…

Shock the muscle by confusing it lol…

i apologize if the wording wasn’t correct but yes…..i am correct

but please share your opinion…….