IGF-1 Levels.

[Matt Muscle]

A question regarding IGF-1 measurement. I have been reading many articles on HGH replacement and IGF-1 levels. Some of them refer to IGF-1 in a measurement of ng/ml and others give reference in an IU measure, for example the article in the link below states;
"The easiest way to measure growth hormone in the body is by measuring plasma IGF-1 levels. Under 350 IU is considered evidence of deficiency. Between the ages of 20 to 40 years, less than 5% of healthy men have less than 350 IU per liter of IGF-1 levels."

http://womens-health.health-cares.net/anti-aging-hgh.php

I am wondering how does this measurement of IU compare or convert to the more familar NG/ML?

As I'm in Australia my IGF-1 levels were in nmol/l, of which I easily found a converter into ng/ml.
My recent tests gave a result of 18 nmol/l, which is about 145ng/ml.

The range for someone 20-30 for my Lab was 17-42 nmol/l
My range, for 40-50 was 11-37 nmol/l.

Pmgamer has said that Swale puts his patients on HGH if thier levels are below 300ng/ml... I thought that perhaps this level sounded too high as some articles state that a level of 300 is quite good for someone in thier twenties?

 

[MacDonnell]

Matt,

I also had low IGF-1 levels, and asked the doc about them. He had me go through an arginine stimulation test (the gold std. for determining whether your HGH level is low). They pump arginine into your veins over a period of about 3 hours (in half-hour increments), and then analyze how your body responds to it. It's quite painless and really very simple...just a bit boring. Despite the fact that my IGF-1 levels were low, the arginine test showed that my growth hormone response was totally normal...So apparently, low IGF-1 levels are not necessarily indicative of low HGH levels. Any other comments on this from anyone?

Mac

 

[zumper]

Matt,

I also had low IGF-1 levels, and asked the doc about them. He had me go through an arginine stimulation test (the gold std. for determining whether your HGH level is low). They pump arginine into your veins over a period of about 3 hours (in half-hour increments), and then analyze how your body responds to it. It's quite painless and really very simple...just a bit boring. Despite the fact that my IGF-1 levels were low, the arginine test showed that my growth hormone response was totally normal...So apparently, low IGF-1 levels are not necessarily indicative of low HGH levels. Any other comments on this from anyone?

Mac

Yes i totally aggre ,my iGF-1 levels are 150 range 180-700.I am 24 years old and my gh always is good.My first doc said not to bother about IGF-1 as i do not have signs of somatopause,but docs here in Greece are far from reality .IGF-1 has many roles in a man's physical and psycological view,like bones,energy,mood,sexual function even in the size of penis i have read somewhere.
Finally i think IGF-1 is the best measurement for diagnosing somatopause.
IGF-1 is the expression of GH,that means all the benefits from GH are through the conversion to the liver of GH,
When i go for bloodwork testing only IGF-1
Is the only hormone i cannot optimize and evrywhere have posted questions cannot find usefull answers
BTW synthetic IGF-1 is too expensive from me as HGH too.

 

[Vforcer2]

IGF-1 levels can be a poor indicator of GH levels. Phillip Miller in his book "Life Extension Revolution" addresses this issue and so does Marianco in these forums.

 

[zumper]

Probably the opposite?

 

[MacDonnell]

Z,

I think normally a low IGF-1 DOES in fact indicate low HGH, but in my case that was not true. A more accurate way to measure HGH is through something like the arginine stimulation test.

Mac

 

[zumper]

Mine too.I have good GH levels but iGF-1 below normal range.
I want to see more discussion to the subject as all of us to find answers,get conclusions and strart optimizing this, IMO important hormone.
Expecting feedback from the experts too.

 

[MacDonnell]

Z,

How (by what method) did you get your GH levels tested?

 

[rockin813]

I'm another one with low IGF-1 levels...117 ref range 126-380. 1st endo didn't know enough to discuss. 2nd one really didn't talk about it cuz we focused more on my T levels.

How in fact do you get your GH levels checked? and what does a Arginine stim test really tell you. if the response is bad than what? if it is good do you disregard the IGF-1 levels?

 

[rockin813]

Matt,

I also had low IGF-1 levels, and asked the doc about them. He had me go through an arginine stimulation test (the gold std. for determining whether your HGH level is low). They pump arginine into your veins over a period of about 3 hours (in half-hour increments), and then analyze how your body responds to it. It's quite painless and really very simple...just a bit boring. Despite the fact that my IGF-1 levels were low, the arginine test showed that my growth hormone response was totally normal...So apparently, low IGF-1 levels are not necessarily indicative of low HGH levels. Any other comments on this from anyone?

Mac

So how did your body respond to the Arginine? did you feel good? or did your IGF-1 levels increase. what was the basis of your 'normal response'?

Thanks!

 

[HeadDoc]

There is alot of controversy on HGH treatment. AMA issued a statement through JAMA. Here is a letter from Dr. Ron Rothenberg to JAMA. He addresses many of the issues above.

http://ehealthspan.com/download/ResponseToJAMA_GH_Article.doc

 

[love_en]

There is alot of controversy on HGH treatment. AMA issued a statement through JAMA. Here is a letter from Dr. Ron Rothenberg to JAMA. He addresses many of the issues above.

http://ehealthspan.com/download/ResponseToJAMA_GH_Article.doc

I think Dr. Rothenberg needs to write a similar letter concerning testosterone replacement. The main justification doctors have presented when denying me TRT is doping in sports and the DEA. Fuck the DEA, this is about treating a medical problem. A medical problem that many physicians do not want to diagnose mostly because of the politics and legal problems of TRT. I still do not understand how the DEA is now the expert on who is hypogonadal and who is not

 

[marianco]

Growth Hormone Replacement

There is alot of controversy on HGH treatment. AMA issued a statement through JAMA. Here is a letter from Dr. Ron Rothenberg to JAMA. He addresses many of the issues above.

http://ehealthspan.com/download/ResponseToJAMA_GH_Article.doc

When the world's largest, oldest and most respected group of endocrinologists acknowledges the existence of adult growth hormone deficiency and even has a reasonable guideline for it (http://www.endo-society.org/quickcontent/clinicalpractice/clinical-guidelines/upload/042506_CG_HormoneBook.pdf), treatment with growth hormone has been legitimized.

A problem is that so many doctors, particularly endocrinologists, are not themselves familiar with adult growth hormone deficiency syndrome. Further, growth hormone has been given a bad reputation due to its abuse by athletes. And a more significant problem I often encounter is that treatment with growth hormone is often done without consideration of the many interactions it has with the other hormone systems - thus causing problems.

Growth hormone should be the last hormone to optimize. Every other hormone should be optimized first. Then after growth hormone treatment is started, all the other hormones need again to be re-optimized, as growth hormone affects their values.

Growth hormone works best when all the other hormones, themselves, are optimized.

At the very least, the following need optimization first before starting growth hormone therapy:
Melatonin, Thyroid Hormone (T3, T4), Cortisol, DHEA, Pregnenolone, Aldosterone, Estrogens, Progesterone, Testosterone, and Insulin.

Growth Hormone most often cannot be given by itself without causing problems. For example, it automatically reduces adrenal function, causing symptoms of adrenal fatigue. Thus, when treatment is started, it has to be coupled with an adrenal fatigue treatment (which can mean at least 5 more different pills to take in some patients).

Growth Hormone, if given, has to be part of an integrated, multi-hormone treatment program.

 

[MacDonnell]

Rockin,

In answer to your questions - The arginine does not actually make you feel good - In fact, you may get a little dizzy or nauseous during the test. (I did not, but they warn that you may.) Apparently, arginine is an amino acid that stimulates the pituitary to produce HGH. I did not, unfortunately, see my test results, but my doc said my response was normal. I had this test done before I began TRT therapy, and I haven't had my IGF-1 levels checked since (so I'm not sure if they're higher now because of TRT or what). My doc said that the low IGF-1 levels were nothing to worry about since the arg. stim. test proved my pituitary was putting out normal levels of HGH...Hence, I never pursued any HGH treatment. Marianco, thanks for shedding more light on this. Rockin, I'm not sure low IGF-1 levels should be a concern, in terms of non-HGH related issues. Perhaps Marianco can respond to this? In addition, here is a website that explains the test (how to prepare, what it involves, etc., etc.) Good luck!

Mac

http://health.allrefer.com/health/growth-hormone-stimulation-test-info.html

 

[rockin813]

Re: Growth Hormone Replacement

At the very least, the following need optimization first before starting growth hormone therapy:
Melatonin, Thyroid Hormone (T3, T4), Cortisol, DHEA, Pregnenolone, Aldosterone, Estrogens, Progesterone, Testosterone, and Insulin.

When you say optimizing other hormones...how important is DHEA in the big picture of things. If one has low DHEA should he (she) take DHEA supplements to see if there's any response? Everything else is in the Gray area (T 400, LH 4, FSH 7 w/out TRT).
My DHEA is 160 with ref range of 80 - 560.

Thanks for any responses/comments.

 

[marianco]

Re: Growth Hormone Replacement

When you say optimizing other hormones...how important is DHEA in the big picture of things. If one has low DHEA should he (she) take DHEA supplements to see if there's any response? Everything else is in the Gray area (T 400, LH 4, FSH 7 w/out TRT).
My DHEA is 160 with ref range of 80 - 560.

Thanks for any responses/comments.

DHEA and growth hormone, more than the other hormones, clearly decline with age.

DHEA has effects independent of other hormones in improving IGF-1, reducing insulin resistance, improving immune system function, reducing blood pressure, improving mood, sex drive, etc. DHEA is also a precursor for other hormones such as testosterone, estradiol, etc.

When one has low DHEA - which, for example, occurs with adrenal fatigue and age - supplementation is important. It is part of a comprehensive adrenal fatigue treatment.

 

[zumper]

Z,

How (by what method) did you get your GH levels tested?

With blood test lke the other hormones.

 

[MacDonnell]

They can't do HGH accurately via std. blood test - That's why I had to get the arginine stim. test. You sure you weren't tested for IGF-1? (That they can measure via std. blood test.)

 

[rockin813]

Re: Growth Hormone Replacement

DHEA and growth hormone, more than the other hormones, clearly decline with age.

DHEA has effects independent of other hormones in improving IGF-1, reducing insulin resistance, improving immune system function, reducing blood pressure, improving mood, sex drive, etc. DHEA is also a precursor for other hormones such as testosterone, estradiol, etc.

When one has low DHEA - which, for example, occurs with adrenal fatigue and age - supplementation is important. It is part of a comprehensive adrenal fatigue treatment.

Thank you for the reply. I've read a lot regarding the importance of DHEA. I will be drawing labs shortly now that I've been off TRT for almost 6 weeks. DHEA has been consistently low in the 150-160 range for the last year (labs drawn every 3 months). I'll read up on other aspects and treatments for adrenal fatigue. My Cortisol numbers were fairly mid range during AM test (8am). As for my other issues...not sure if Finasteride (propecia) is a factor. Took for 7 years with zero sides. After hitting this brick wall i quit propecia (1 year ago in June) and still haven't gottenover this hump. Don't associate it with finasteride but it is something to consider.

Thanks

 

[zumper]

They can't do HGH accurately via std. blood test - That's why I had to get the arginine stim. test. You sure you weren't tested for IGF-1? (That they can measure via std. blood test.)

I have been tested with simple blood test both GHand IGF-1.