Incline/Flat Alternating...

[Weapon X]

What's up guys, what do you guys think of alternating Flat presses first to Incline Presses first, week to week for Chest day? My Inclines have really been stuck for awhile now and I was wondering if just backing off of them may help them a little? Currently I do something like this for Chest once a week...

Incline Bench Press
Flat DB Press
Weighted Dips

I don't do any flies at this time because they seem to bother my right shoulder, but I was thinking about doing this next week and alternating the two...

Flat Bench Presses
Incline DB Presses
Weighted Dips

I'm thinking the change and slightly different movements may be better for my Shoulder in the long run as well, but I don't want to stray to much from just sticking to what's my weakness... and it appears to be Inclines. Also, I should probobly mention that I have included Seated Military Barbell Presses to my Shoulder routine as well, after never really sticking to them... I always did DB's. I am hoping that this similar movement will help my Inclines as well. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Beefy]

I think incline will do more for your chest appearance wise than flat bench. Personally, I always do some form of incline presses first to make sure I can hit my upper chest hard and heavy.

I had a minor shoulder injury in high school that kind of turned me against military presses for a while. They are great for mass, just be careful with your form. I like using dumb bells and doing front, lateral, and bent-over lateral raises to hit my shoulders.

How long have you been lifting? If you've got a few years worth of solid mass built up you might consider trying out different things to start to bring everything together more. That's what I'm doing. My first 4 years of lifting pretty much consisted of Bench, Incline, Squat, Olympic lifts, Leg Press and a little focus on curls and pullovers. I wish I had focused more on my upper back and lats, but otherwise I'm in good shape to really fine tune things. So what's your status?

 

[Weapon X]

Yo

How long have you been lifting? If you've got a few years worth of solid mass built up you might consider trying out different things to start to bring everything together more. That's what I'm doing. My first 4 years of lifting pretty much consisted of Bench, Incline, Squat, Olympic lifts, Leg Press and a little focus on curls and pullovers. I wish I had focused more on my upper back and lats, but otherwise I'm in good shape to really fine tune things. So what's your status?

Thanks for responding man. I guess I've been liftin about four years or so as well. I'm 6', around 215lbs or so. My routine is fairly basic, mainly free weights four days a week. I guess that I have some size, but I am kind of lanky and I just require more density... wich I know will come when the weights get heavier. I guess I just posted this because during my Chest workout yesterday I was Incline Benching next to a real monster who was throwing up 315 real easy... and here I am with my 185 and 205. I realize it all takes time though, but lately I have been thinking more and more about considering applying some type of power training to my regular workouts. I've never been a Powerhouse anyway, when I was Flat benching on a regualr basis I was only doing 275 for around sixe reps... since then I have been trying to do what will make my chest look better, and concentrate more on the upper chest movements.

I think my Incline weakness is in my shoulders though, and something about this bench I use at my gym. The angle looks about right, but I used to work out at this Powerlifting gym and they had the best Incline Bench... everything felt smooth as hell on it. I was able to use 225 with that one, but this one feels like 300 with 205. It looks around 30 degrees, but I am thinking about putting a quarter pound plate under neath it and see if that helps at all. Just for the hell of it and because I'd like to post more on this site, because there seems to be a lot of knowledgable people, here is my current routine -

Monday-Chest/Biceps
Incline Bench
Flat DB Press
Weighted Dips
Incline DB Curl
Barbell Curl
DB Hammer Curl

Tuesday-Legs/Abs... Maintenance with Legs, because they grow fast....
Leg Extensions
Squats
Lying Leg Curl
Standing Leg Curl
Seated Calf Raises
Standing Calf Raises
Decline Crunch
Hanging Leg Raises

Wednesday-Rest

Thursday-Back/Rear Delts
Pulldowns
Barbell Rows
Seated Rows
One-Arm DB Rows
Rear-Delt Machine
Deadlifts

Friday-Shoulders/Triceps
Seated Military Presses
Front Raises
Lateral Machine
DB Shrugs
Tricep Pressdowns
Close-Grip Bench
Overhead Extensions

Saturday-Rest
Sunday-Rest

That's what my week looks like. I guess that I am also really influenced by the way Dorian Yates used to train as well... building up to a max set. My current goals are to improve my Shoulders/Upper Chest and Back thickness. I have been checking out the 5x5 posts and have been thinking of someway applying that type of training to my current routine. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Grizzly]

"I've never been a Powerhouse anyway, when I was Flat benching on a regualr basis I was only doing 275 for around sixe reps... since then I have been trying to do what will make my chest look better, and concentrate more on the upper chest movements."

And there's your problem. I'll tell you what, bodybuilding was the worst thing I ever did for my physique. Huh?!?!?!? Doing that mind muscle, focus on the form, control your rep, watch in the mirror, whatever other bullshit you read in the magazines crap ruined my training. Pick up a heavy thing and lift it a few times. Repeat. That's all you need to worry about until you're huge. Even then, one could argue that it's unnecessary.

Also, no offense, but your back workout sucks major monkey balls. No deadlifts? PullDOWNS? You got a vagina or soemthing?

 

[Weapon X]

Also, no offense, but your back workout sucks major monkey balls. No deadlifts? PullDOWNS? You got a vagina or soemthing?

Thursday-Back/Rear Delts
Pulldowns
Barbell Rows
Seated Rows
One-Arm DB Rows
Rear-Delt Machine
Deadlifts

Yea, the above routine usually leaves me feeling nice and feminine...lol. When I get to the Barbell Rows I am ready to flame on, and the Deadlifts last makes me want to dance...

I think you are on to something though with all that Bodybuilding stuff... I just have reprogram myself and get more educated on different ways of doing things.

 

[Grizzly]

My bad. I missed the deadlifts. Either way, I still take issue with the back workout. It makes little sense to put the hardest exercise last. I also maintain that pulldowns are very much inferior to pullUPS. What's the purpose of 3 rowing movements? It's overkill, especially since seated rows are gay. The barbell rows should more than take care of your rowing needs, including any need to add silly "sculpting" exercises like the rear delt machine.

 

[Bob Smith]

Grizz makes some good points (for a change ). Starting your back workout with pulldowns rather than rows or DLs is kinda dumb. In reality, you should be able to use no more than 3 movements to hit any particular muscle group/area, ie, legs: squat, sldl, and calf raises. The rest isnt necessary. For back: BB rows and DL, and shrugs if you add traps in with back.

For bis, you are wasting a lot of energy using 3 movements. Bis are such a small muscle group that you can adequately hit them with 1 and no more than 2 movements. I prefer bb curls. Or you could do dumbell hammer curls. The same applies to triceps. Skip the pressdowns and overhead extensions and focus on close grip bench (hands just inside shoulder width). Or even better, find out how to do California presses.

As Grizz said, quit the lame bodybuilding stuff you read in the useless magazines. IMO, as much attention Arnold brought to BBing, he probably did the biggest disservice in terms of training advice. Read the Tribute to JohnSmith sticky and youll see more real information than you would see in a lifetime of reading the magazines. And also pay special attention to how JS tells people how to do barbell rows.

 

[Weapon X]

Yo

My bad. I missed the deadlifts. Either way, I still take issue with the back workout. It makes little sense to put the hardest exercise last. I also maintain that pulldowns are very much inferior to pullUPS. What's the purpose of 3 rowing movements? It's overkill, especially since seated rows are gay. The barbell rows should more than take care of your rowing needs, including any need to add silly "sculpting" exercises like the rear delt machine.

I guess putting the hardest movement last is a "Bodybuilding" thing, because the thought process in doing this routine was to put stress on the intended muscle, and not see how much I could max out on. Around 275-315 does the job at that point, compared to using 405 when doing them first. Yea, I think Chins are better than Pulldowns... I've been doing Chins forever now and wanted to switch it up. I agree though, that doing just Barbell Rows should take care of your needs, I am just doing variety, because thickness is what I need more of, the way I do the sets is far from overtraining and the rear delt stuff is for balance and building a better shelf for the bar to rest on when Squatting (Threw that one out there heard a Powerlifter say that once. Lol). My whole Back workout only takes like 45-50 minutes anyway. Heres what I did last week, copied from my journal

Chins-*BWx10,25x8
BB Rows-*135x12,185x10
DB Rows-*85x12,100x8
Seated Rows-*135x12,165x8
Deadlifts-*225x8,275x6

The * is the warm-ups followed by the working set, so that day I only really did 5 work sets for Back. These are slow and controlled reps with lots of squeezing and all that gay mind to muscle connection stuff that was mentioned earlier, and that approach is for all of my movements. This was before I decided to add the Rear delt work.

Again I am just writing all of this to for an open mind and learn new stuff. My long term goal is to possibly compete someday in a Natural Bodybuilding Contest, but I have been thinking of doing more of a strength type of program for a couple of years to build up a solid base. I dont want to just look strong, I want to be strong this is why I realize I have to change my approach at this level in my development. So, suggestions are appreciated

 

[Nate Dawg]

Go with the 5x5 routine, it will really help build your base strength up. I did the 5x5 for legs for 5 weeks and was amazed at how well it worked. Added 40lbs to my 5x5 weight, and on top of that I was in post cycle, so that is really good to be able to add strength like that especially in post cycle. After that I went to more of a westside routine in preparing for a powerlifting meet. Now that the meet is over I am going back to the 5x5 and trying it for bench also, last time I only incorporated it into my squats and squatted 3x week. Im only squatting once a week now with 5x5, probably not as good as the 3x week with the deloading, but I think it will still work good. Just started doing JS rows about 4 weeks ago, and they are by far the best exercise for back I have ever tried, I was pretty amazed. Stay super strict with the form on them.

Bob- could you elaborate on California presses for triceps?

 

[Bob Smith]

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise3/californiapress.htm

 

[Weapon X]

Cool...

Appreciate the advice guys. I printed out all the 5x5 info from the site and I am going to do a four day routine doing basically a similar bodypart schedule, but droping a lot of the Isolation movements and putting the bug guns first. Today I incorporated it into my workout, and did this...

Deadlifts-5x5
BB Rows-5x5
Chins-5x5
Incline Rear DB Raises-3x10... I know, I know... lol.
(Little bit of Abs)

Afterwards it felt like I was moving furniture all day long, I was turning different colors. Big change from the "go for the pump" mentality... can't wait to try this out for Bench and Squat work.

A Powerlifter actually showed me that California press a long time ago when I was complaining that my elbow hurting from skullcrushers. I'm definetely going to have to start doing them regurally, because they do feel great and they don't hurt the elbows at all. Thanks again for the info...

 

[Bob Smith]

5x5 is a 3x/wk program.

 

[Grizzly]

What isolation in the 5X5? Are you sure you really read and printed out all the information? It's not a function of doing 5 sets of 5 reps that makes the 5X5. It's the loading scheme that is of the utmost importance. And the 3X/wk squats.

 

[Bob Smith]

For the first 8-12 weeks of the 5x5, DONT CHANGE A THING! Follow it exactly as is written. Its when people make "minor tweaks" to a program that they end up screwing up the most important aspects by trying to incorporate their "old" way of thinking into the new program. Dont do it! Do the program as written.