Is long esters more anabolic?

Mrwin

New Member
Let’s take two scenarios with two identical twins that eat and train exactly the same. One twin inject 100mg test suspension every week, while the other twin inject 145mg test enanthate every week. So both twins inject 100mg of pure exogenous testosterone every week. They do this for a year. Which twin will have more gains at the end of the year?
 
The faster the release from the depot, the more active substance can react with its targets (receptors, enzymes like aromatase or 5-alpha-reductase). It's the same reason why SQ testosterone seems to have less effect on erythropoiesis and to be less aromatized compared to IM injection
Basic understanding is that long esters aromatise more (depending on compound) and you have more test in 100MG test P than you do in test E
 
It's the same reason why SQ testosterone seems to have less effect on erythropoiesis and to be less aromatized compared to IM injection



Unfortunately the baseline age for the treatment arms was not matched well.


The paper should never have been published with this glaring defect.
 
One twin is injecting Test no ester which has same PK profile as test prop. The other is doing TE with longer effective elimination half life. The twin doing TE would need to inject ~139 mg/week to get 100 mg/week of pure test.

Area under the curve the same for both.


Same gainz unless there is some mechanism to explain same AUC but difference in peak/trough fluctuation causing net benefit. One may be sleep. Once weekly hit of 100 mg per week of test no ester will yield a massive peak.

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Fun hypothetical.
 
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But long esters will stack / build up more.
If there’s anything to this, this would be my thought as to why. After a month’s administration, the accumulation of Deca vs NPP is substantial. This wouldn’t matter in a short cycle, or would even come out benefitting the faster ester, but after a few weeks the longer ester comes out further and further ahead depending on ester length.
 


Unfortunately the baseline age for the treatment arms was not matched well.


The paper should never have been published with this glaring defect.
Surely, I agree with you, but there are some other studies if I remember well (also cited in that one) that demonstrated the same pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics effect, but it's been quite a while that I read them
 
I found this article interesting "Testosterone is not Testosterone" Long esters vs Short esters, Broscience Debunked.

”In 1954, a scientist named Reifstein and his team conducted a study comparing Testosterone Enanthate with Testosterone Propionate. The results of these studies were that Test Enanthate resulted in total nitrogen retention of 1.76g/day vs Propionate only 1.02g/day. They also found that the duration of anabolic activity was 33 days with test e and 12 days with prop.(1) These were with the same doses 200mgs of each. Overall, the longer ester retains more nitrogen (muscle gain) per day then shorts, and remains active in the body for much longer. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if something causes higher levels of nitrogen retention, and hangs around in your body longer, it's going to be more anabolic. Real life experience tells us the same. Think of a prop kicker, of 150mgs every other day, or just a prop cycle. I've done 6 week kickers while waiting for 500mgs a week of test e to kick in, and the results of the Propionate are not even close to the same as the long esters. Despite the same dosage AND 150mgs of prop, every other day (525mgs total per week) actually contains more pure test then 500mgs of test Enanthate due to the ester weights,.”

Seem that longer esters are more anabolicc then..?
 
I believe long esters increase serum IGF-1 to a higher degree than prop as well. Not sure the method of action behind this, maybe one of the vets have read this and can confirm.
 
This.
Ive been pinning myself 16 times a week for the last couple months and honestly i want to kill myself
I couldn’t give evough of a shit about bodybuilding to inject for than 2-3 times a week max. Cruising I go as long as 1-2 weeks between pins.
 
The faster the release from the depot, the more active substance can react with its targets (receptors, enzymes like aromatase or 5-alpha-reductase). It's the same reason why SQ testosterone seems to have less effect on erythropoiesis and to be less aromatized compared to IM injection

Topical scrotal testosterone is like straight DHT. Maybe off-topic, but method of delivery can have different effects.
 
But long esters will stack / build up more.
Sure but the short esters and TNE peak much higher from the same mg dose. I believe I read in a paper that a 25mg of test prop resulted in the same peak as a 110mg dose of enanthate. Obviously the enanthate has a more gradual decay though. But pinning the short ester with enough frequency (EOD?) would presumably result in similar auc as the long ester even at steady state levels. I've never actually done the calculation to determine that though.

Edit: Haha, I should have kept reading the thread. @readalot posted a graph showing the comparison of 25mg prop vs 110mg enanthate.
 
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I found this article interesting "Testosterone is not Testosterone" Long esters vs Short esters, Broscience Debunked.

”In 1954, a scientist named Reifstein and his team conducted a study comparing Testosterone Enanthate with Testosterone Propionate. The results of these studies were that Test Enanthate resulted in total nitrogen retention of 1.76g/day vs Propionate only 1.02g/day. They also found that the duration of anabolic activity was 33 days with test e and 12 days with prop.(1) These were with the same doses 200mgs of each. Overall, the longer ester retains more nitrogen (muscle gain) per day then shorts, and remains active in the body for much longer. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if something causes higher levels of nitrogen retention, and hangs around in your body longer, it's going to be more anabolic. Real life experience tells us the same. Think of a prop kicker, of 150mgs every other day, or just a prop cycle. I've done 6 week kickers while waiting for 500mgs a week of test e to kick in, and the results of the Propionate are not even close to the same as the long esters. Despite the same dosage AND 150mgs of prop, every other day (525mgs total per week) actually contains more pure test then 500mgs of test Enanthate due to the ester weights,.”

Seem that longer esters are more anabolicc then..?
Can't find the text. Didn't that study compare a single dose of 200mg of each though? If so, it would be a foolish comparison with an obvious outcome in favor of the long ester.
 
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