Is PCT needed in my case?

[limitphobic]

I’ll try to keep this quick and clean.

Ended my 4th cycle 20 days ago.
Test only at about 600mg/week + hcg at 1500iu/week for a total of 18 weeks.
My balls are getting bigger and libido is high.
Should I even use clomid and Nolva?
I’m surprised how well I’m bouncing back from this cycle… same gear as always, same protocol as always, same lovely gains as always…

Opinions?

Edit: I also went celibate at the last day of cycle. 20 days of no “la petite morte” may be my new pct standard…

 

[1whocares]

I only know one way to respond to this type of situation/question and it comes up a lot. The whole HCG, PCT and timing at the end of a cycle.

My response is PCT is performed to get our bodies to produce their own HCG. The HCG mimics LSH and or LH and that's how our bodies tell itself to produce testosterone. PCT is done with a SERM and although this is being overly simple the SERM tells our bodies to produce LSH and. Or LH. When we use HCG we are just giving our bodies a synthetic way to keep the testosterone production going on cycle. Even if we use all the HCG in the world on cycle once we stop using the HCG we will have shutdown without SERM therapy. Really PCT just starts the whole road to recovery. Ultimately we are getting our HPTA up and going again. That's the loop in our bodies that controls hormone levels like testosterone and all that fun jazz.

So to answer your question another way, you absolutely still need to take nolvadex or clomid for about 4 weeks, aka PCT with a SERM.
Guys tend to gravitate towards nolvadex these days. I can say this, some guys react on clomid, we act like pregnant women. I can't take it but plenty of guys can tolerate it. I just want you aware if you do use clomid.
The typical cookie cutter, but tried and used dosage schedule for pct is two weeks of a 2Xs a standard dosage MGs per day then two weeks of 1Xs a standard MGs per day. Nolvadex's standard dose is 20MGs and Clomid's is 50MGs. So for the first two weeks you would so 2Xs the standard nolvadex dose is 2 x 20MGs or 40MGs per day for the two weeks.

 

[SenorSuperdrol]

Depending on the test you used, you haven’t even cleared 5 half lives, so you functioning on exogenous test that’s being eliminated, and what the HCG is doing. So you haven’t even “bounced back” yet. Did you pull bloods before and during?

 

[limitphobic]

I have always ran a very solid pct program with these points you have made. Maybe I’ll extend to 6 weeks before I start PCT cut out hcg week 4. Last 2 weeks will be observe and report. Then from the info I gather, maybe I will/won’t add any new serm unless absolutely needed… but at 20 days on zero I’ve heard much worse stories.

I know it’s my body to play with and potentially fuck up. I have all the pct on hand and ready for use. I’m just thinking to myself “my balls are plumping up nicely, libido is out there fuckin a pile of granite somewhere (don’t worry he’ll be back in time for dinner), and overall feeling well.

So even with these data, some imply going the well trodded path of “do PTC”. I’d like to counter offer maybe the 1st 30days after a cycle ends, don’t bust a nut at all. I would fuck a thornbriar bush if it had nice hips at this point….

food for thought

 

[limitphobic]

During: yes mid cycle
After: their coming just gotta be prepared for what I want to see. I may go 6 weeks before last blood test just to see where my levels show and go from their. Sound like a plan?

 

[limitphobic]

Depending on the test you used, you haven’t even cleared 5 half lives, so you functioning on exogenous test that’s being eliminated, and what the HCG is doing. So you haven’t even “bounced back” yet. Did you pull bloods before and during?

My bad the last 2 messages from me were incoherent ramblings from my sleep meds. Let me try to clear the air clear headed…

It’s test-c.

The kicker is, even running hcg during cycle, balls don’t get bigger, they just sustain size and function or limit shrinkage. My balls have gotten bigger since I’ve stopped the cycle. Could be the hcg. But I’ve never began recovering this fast on any of my other cycles.

Just to clear the air with @1whocares : Thanks for the advice and effort. That’s typically my PCT protocol I run after a cycle. This times just weird. I won’t say “bounced” back but I will say bouncING back nicely.

I’ll probably run a nice PCT just to be safe. I fucking hate clomid cuz I get sensitive like a teenage girl and Nolva because it has nasty vision sides for me. But that’s the game we play

Edit: the reason I started this thread was because I’ve seen old school vets (who got banned for speaking the truth) say stuff like “don’t take anything unneeded” and “if your bouncing back don’t fuck with it”

 

[All Nats McGee]

What’s your age?

 

[Driada Medical]

Taking anabolic steroids, you interfere with the body with the help of medications. In order for you to return it to your original state, you also need to come to the help of medicines, in this case to SERMS.

Try toremifene if tamoxifen or clomifene is not right for you. Perhaps you are using too large dosages. I would not recommend using more than 20 mg of tamoxifen and 50 mg of clomiphene per day. You can also try using both medications, but in a dosage twice as small, for example, 10 mg of tamoxifen and 25 mg of clomiphene. Perhaps this will reduce unpleasant side effects for you.

 

[limitphobic]

What’s your age?

I’m in my low 30’s

Taking anabolic steroids, you interfere with the body with the help of medications. In order for you to return it to your original state, you also need to come to the help of medicines, in this case to SERMS.

Try toremifene if tamoxifen or clomifene is not right for you. Perhaps you are using too large dosages. I would not recommend using more than 20 mg of tamoxifen and 50 mg of clomiphene per day. You can also try using both medications, but in a dosage twice as small, for example, 10 mg of tamoxifen and 25 mg of clomiphene. Perhaps this will reduce unpleasant side effects for you.

Those are my exact doses for clomid and Nolva I start with. I’ve never tried toremifene, I’ll have to look into that. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I understand everyone’s concern and adamant advice to PCT but like I said… maybe my bodies learning after a few cycles that “hey, the exo test is gone, time to get to work.” Or maybe I just need to run a PCT program. Not sure yet, the polls are still open

 

[SenorSuperdrol]

I’m in my low 30’s


Those are my exact doses for clomid and Nolva I start with. I’ve never tried toremifene, I’ll have to look into that. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I understand everyone’s concern and adamant advice to PCT but like I said… maybe my bodies learning after a few cycles that “hey, the exo test is gone, time to get to work.” Or maybe I just need to run a PCT program. Not sure yet, the polls are still open

Just to be brash bro, your body is not learning anything. You only feel good “bouncing back” because you have your test shots in your system, and they will be suppressive for 5 half lives, and the HCG. I don’t even know why it’s a question. Run the PCT, you only get one meat vehicle why risk it? Lastly, you should running bloods, before during and post pct so you actually know what’s going on. You might fell “good” after pct and have half your starting test you’d never know.

 

[limitphobic]

Just to be brash bro, your body is not learning anything. You only feel good “bouncing back” because you have your test shots in your system, and they will be suppressive for 5 half lives, and the HCG. I don’t even know why it’s a question. Run the PCT, you only get one meat vehicle why risk it? Lastly, you should running bloods, before during and post pct so you actually know what’s going on. You might fell “good” after pct and have half your starting test you’d never know.

Feels aside: my balls are getting bigger…

Still waiting on a vets opinion

 

[SenorSuperdrol]

Feels aside: my balls are getting bigger…

Still waiting on a vets opinion

What does a vet have to do with anything blood work is blood work. Your balls are getting bigger because of HCG, that has nothing to do with your your pituitary getting the Gnrh signal it needs from the hypothalamus, to produce the proper amount of LH and FSH returning you to normal. It’s not guess work dude your PCT is done when your blood work indicates.

 

[Driada Medical]

Most likely, if you do not do PCT, then in a couple of weeks you will have a collapse in muscle mass, as well as a deterioration in mood and possibly libido.

 

[limitphobic]

What does a vet have to do with anything blood work is blood work. Your balls are getting bigger because of HCG, that has nothing to do with your your pituitary getting the Gnrh signal it needs from the hypothalamus, to produce the proper amount of LH and FSH returning you to normal. It’s not guess work dude your PCT is done when your blood work indicates.

The reason I’d like to hear from a vet is because, don’t get me wrong, I appreciate good science backed facts, but actual experience in the matter is equally if not more important to me.

Your points fair enough though, I’ll just run the PCT.

 

[hijoshiki]

Actual Experience:

No you don't have to PCT in every case.

I don't like SERMS at all, make me feel like dog shit. I can't use hCG because it causes me to bloat and I start wheezing and it gives me the worst headaches.

My solution, run short ester like Test Ace for 2 months and then quit. And see what happens. In my case my balls plump up and I start feeling decent, but not near as good as when I'm on T. That said I still recommend people allow their balls to plump naturally a few times a year to keep them functioning just in case years down the road you have to come off everything for health reasons.

I went 3 years without coming off and my nuts got so small I was worried that those little almonds were gonna disappear. So I quit for 2 months and my ballsac was fat and juicy.

 

[limitphobic]

Actual Experience:

No you don't have to PCT in every case.

I don't like SERMS at all, make me feel like dog shit. I can't use hCG because it causes me to bloat and I start wheezing and it gives me the worst headaches.

My solution, run short ester like Test Ace for 2 months and then quit. And see what happens. In my case my balls plump up and I start feeling decent, but not near as good as when I'm on T. That said I still recommend people allow their balls to plump naturally a few times a year to keep them functioning just in case years down the road you have to come off everything for health reasons.

I went 3 years without coming off and my nuts got so small I was worried that those little almonds were gonna disappear. So I quit for 2 months and my ballsac was fat and juicy.

I’m running the PCT currently but it’s nice to hear I’m not the only one bouncing back without the meds. I’m still going to run it because… I think all the old school vets went elsewhere (they have).

I remember them saying stuff about “if you’re doing fine without, don’t add anything” and stuff like that. I’ll just run a 24 day PCT and keep it light and I’ll report back here with bloods

 

[hijoshiki]

I’m running the PCT currently but it’s nice to hear I’m not the only one bouncing back without the meds. I’m still going to run it because… I think all the old school vets went elsewhere (they have).

I remember them saying stuff about “if you’re doing fine without, don’t add anything” and stuff like that. I’ll just run a 24 day PCT and keep it light and I’ll report back here with bloods

IMO SERMS just fuck up the natural process.

We know for a fact that at 9 months Serms or drug free-discontinuation they both arrive at the same place. Of course 9 months is too long to wait and it depends on how long you've been using without a break and what compounds you've been using. Are you gonna ever go back to what you had naturally before you started on gear, that's wishful thinking for anyone over the age of 35.

That said drug free is always worth a try if stopping to give your body a break.

I've always thought it silly when someone is worried while on hCG and then Serms that they're not recovering fast enough. Just ride it out and see what happens, you're not gonna die and that break from everything is good for your health.

SERMS can fuck with your mind, having low T in a stressful situation can make things worse, but if SERMS mess with you mentally then I don't see what you're gaining, you're just torturing yourself. Eat healthy, exercise moderately and relax and ride it out. There's even a place for using a no ester base T every so often if you have something physically challenging you have to do and once it's over you stop using again and you'll continue on with your natural restoration.