Just Started TRT - Bloodwork Review? High E2?

[Checkm8]

Hi,

I just started TRT at 140mg / week with 1000iu HCG / week a few weeks ago.

I got a blood test about 24-36 hours after my first injection this week (attached).

I was wondering:

1. Is my estrogen high enough to warrant an AI?
2. Is my test too high for 24-36h post injection?
3. What does A/G ratio mean and should I worry about it?

 

[Checkm8]

For more info:

My protocol is inject every 3.5 days, 500iu HCG 70mg test-c

I am actually very surprised that my test is so high, because when I was cycling years ago on pharmacom gear 200mg put me at ~900.

I do have adex on hand, but am not sure how to dose it given my e2 is only slightly over the reference range. Whats a good protocol to get me into the 30s for e2?

 

[Kinetic]

For a/g ratio:

Total Protein and Albumin/Globulin (A/G) Ratio: The Test | Total Protein and A/G Ratio Test: TP; Albumin/Globulin Ratio; Total Protein; Albumin to Globulin Ratio | Lab Tests Online

Your e2 is higher than I would want, but some guys prefer it higher. Are you noticing any symptoms of high estrogen?

 

[Checkm8]

For a/g ratio:

Total Protein and Albumin/Globulin (A/G) Ratio: The Test | Total Protein and A/G Ratio Test: TP; Albumin/Globulin Ratio; Total Protein; Albumin to Globulin Ratio | Lab Tests Online

Your e2 is higher than I would want, but some guys prefer it higher. Are you noticing any symptoms of high estrogen?

I think I have a bit of bloat, but nothing drastic. When I was on AAS I preferred it in 30s-40s which I think was ideal for sex drive and well being. I am just curious if this level of e2 could do any harm in the long term?

 

[Kinetic]

I've read that excessive estrogen levels in older men have been linked to coronary issues, strokes, etc. Maybe one of our resident MD's can chime in with actual studies done on it.

Most guys don't need an AI for TRT doses, but that can change when you start adding HCG. If you do decide to use adex, start low - .25-.5mg e3d or so - and get bloods done again. Don't go crazy with it or you'll crash your e2 like I did.

I don't take any AI's for my TRT anymore, but I also don't use HCG. I do take Diindolylmethane (DIM) every other day and my e2 stays in the 30's on average.

 

[Burrr]

I only use 250 iu of HCG per week, works well for me.

 

[Old]

For more info:

My protocol is inject every 3.5 days, 500iu HCG 70mg test-c

I am actually very surprised that my test is so high, because when I was cycling years ago on pharmacom gear 200mg put me at ~900.

I do have adex on hand, but am not sure how to dose it given my e2 is only slightly over the reference range. Whats a good protocol to get me into the 30s for e2?

Bones need E2 > 16 ... and the more the better. Mortality (cardiac wise) it is best for E2 > 20 but < 30. So 66 is high.

What if you ditch TRT and hcg, then take 0.5mg Anastrozol per day, and see where your T and E2 land?

 

[Checkm8]

Bones need E2 > 16 ... and the more the better. Mortality (cardiac wise) it is best for E2 > 20 but < 30. So 66 is high.

What if you ditch TRT and hcg, then take 0.5mg Anastrozol per day, and see where your T and E2 land?

Pre-TRT my test was always between 250 and 375. Tested 6 times over a year. Also tried clomid monotherapy, clomid + nolva, and HCG.

E2 was always 8-12 pre-trt.

 

[TheOldFart]

High E2 is your body telling you that your TT is too high. My E2 is stable between 25 and 30 until my TT goes over 900-1000, then it shoots up rapidly, going to where yours is if I get TT over 1200.

 

[hardasnails1973]

HCG can increase aromatase in some people much more effective then other. Using smaller dosage of HCG spread out over the week may help reduce this effect. Depending if you want to pop out a kid one may need HCG. Some need it to help keep LH receptors awaken in the brain as a deficiency can cause mental issues

 

[Dr JIM]

Hi,

I just started TRT at 140mg / week with 1000iu HCG / week a few weeks ago.

I got a blood test about 24-36 hours after my first injection this week (attached).

I was wondering:

1. Is my estrogen high enough to warrant an AI?
2. Is my test too high for 24-36h post injection?
3. What does A/G ratio mean and should I worry about it?

View attachment 70085

And what has your physician said in response to all your questions?

 

[Dr JIM]

HCG can increase aromatase

HCG may increase E-2 bc it's an LH analog and tends to increase TT levels.

The latter may then be converted intto E-2 via aromatase.

However HCG does not alter the kinetics of TT/E-2 conversion (AKA aromatase activity) which is genetically predetermined.

If yoou know of evidence to the contrary I'd like to review it.

 

[Dr JIM]

For a/g ratio:

Total Protein and Albumin/Globulin (A/G) Ratio: The Test | Total Protein

Are you noticing any symptoms of high estrogen?

E-2 signs or symptoms? That is the only question that matters for all intents and purposes.

A/G ratio

Here's two simple LAB TESTING rules of thumb:

1) Only obtain those tests that are INDICATED based on risk factors or clinical grounds

2) Only conduct assays if "you" are capable of interpreting the results correctly.

 

[HIGHRISK]

I'm on 200 mg test c twice a week on Monday and Thursday. My e level was 67 when I started and had low sex drive and not a full erection. Dr put me on .5 arimidex on pin days and so far I feel great and my wife is very happy I get my bloods next month to see where I'm at. As I only see my dr twice a year.

 

[Burrr]

What do the rest of the bloods numbers look like?

I'm on 200 mg test c twice a week on Monday and Thursday. My e level was 67 when I started and had low sex drive and not a full erection. Dr put me on .5 arimidex on pin days and so far I feel great and my wife is very happy I get my bloods next month to see where I'm at. As I only see my dr twice a year.

 

[HIGHRISK]

Well here's the deal. DR has me doing my pins once a week and I was feeling like shit towards the end of the week so I took it upon myself to split it along with the adex. So for some reason he makes me pull bloods on the 7th day after my last pin. So the last month before I go see him I get back on his once a week schedule to give him the numbers he wants.
I'll have to go find my last bloods but for some reason he only pulls like 3 or 4 things and not a full work up like most. Needless to say I'm switching soon because he doesn't seem to know much or really care IMO.

 

[Evom1]

I am actually very surprised that my test is so high, because when I was cycling years ago on Pharmacom gear 200mg put me at ~900.

Well you are comparing what I'm assuming is prescription test to pharmacom...

 

[hardasnails1973]

HCG may increase E-2 bc it's an LH analog and tends to increase TT levels.

The latter may then be converted intto E-2 via aromatase.

However HCG does not alter the kinetics of TT/E-2 conversion (AKA aromatase activity) which is genetically predetermined.

If yoou know of evidence to the contrary I'd like to review it.

What I have heard anecdotal is the HCG has an high affinity to aromatize with in the Leydig cells within the testes independent from increasing testosterone levels

Again this study is in vitro, but may provide more further insight

Acute stimulation of aromatization in Leydig cells by human chorionic gonadotropin in vitro.

 

[SkullCrusher]

I've read that excessive estrogen levels in older men have been linked to coronary issues, strokes, etc. Maybe one of our resident MD's can chime in with actual studies done on it.

Most guys don't need an AI for TRT doses, but that can change when you start adding HCG. If you do decide to use adex, start low - .25-.5mg e3d or so - and get bloods done again. Don't go crazy with it or you'll crash your e2 like I did.

I don't take any AI's for my TRT anymore, but I also don't use HCG. I do take Diindolylmethane (DIM) every other day and my e2 stays in the 30's on average.

If you’re still a member here Kinetic, how did you find DIM?