kind of bummed out

[peewee327]

let me start off by saying i am a new patient of swales,i have just started androgel 5 about 4 weeks ago had labs done after 3 weeks during those 3 weeks before the labs i felt like crap applied androgel around 12:30pm after the gym and before going to work and about 3 hours later i would feel like shit, fatigued...fatigued to the point where i could fall asleep standing up then hours later it would pass kept happening everytime. i couldn't wait to get my initial labs done so swale could read them and adjust my dose. let me add though after getting the labs i started to take indoplex with DIM 2 tabs at first and now just one tab. after 3 days of taking DIM i started feeling great mood was upbeat workouts felt great gains in strength and i could see a change in body comp and no mor fatigue. i was finally saying to myself...now i know what the guys on the meso board were saying when they said they felt great. well swale got my labs back yesterday and he said my T levels were way to high high enough for him to ask,and rightfully so, if i was applying the right amount 4 pumps(which i was). i couldn't believe it i felt like such shit while applying the gel and before taking the DIM. swale didn't get into my numbers yet but i am sure when i here back from him he will get into more detail. so today i just applied 2 pumps on my arms. don't know what else to do. my prior t levels befor HRT that i had tested a couple of times over about a year period were anywhere from 273 total to low 400's with the last test being a total T of 299 if i average out all my t levels that i had done pre HRT it would of come out to around 340 total T. my free t levels were all low normal never going above 10. i had gone to the urologist to see what he would say and he was pushing viagra until he examined my testicles and was quite shocked on how small they were and his whole attitude changed started telling me all the benefits of androgel he even said that he couldn't believe my t levels were as high as they were judging by the size of my testicles. well to make a long story short 2 weeks after that he precribes androgel 5 and since then swale has taken over my treatment. i am just befuddled and perplexed about how bad i felt in those 3 weeks prior to my labs test and then have my levels too high and felt like shit. i would have bet the house that my levels were not going to be high. well sorry for the rambling post i am just a little depressed now thinking that i was heading in the right direction and feeling better and now this. thanks for listening and if you have any input chime right in

 

[novicebb]

You have to spread out some of your paragraphs because I can't really read most of it.

 

[peewee327]

paragraphs? spread them out? what am i in english class. i got a god chuckle out of that one. hey novice thanks for making me laugh.

 

[mranak]

If your test levels were high, then your E2 may have been high as well.

You are in good hands with SWALE.

It sounds like you didn't have any bloodwork done prior to starting the Androgel, but your testes were shrunk. Is that accurate? Have they always been small?

 

[mranak]

Oh yeah. Cheer up. Getting TRT adjusted properly sometimes takes time. I didn't get immediate benefits from TRT, but over the long haul I'm doing much much better.

 

[peewee327]

i had a ton of blood work done prior to HRT i have had an LH level of 14 at one point(i think high normal is 9) i had a total estrogen if 195 at one point normal <135. like i said prior to HRT test levels range from a high of low 400's to a low of 273. with the last test done earlier this year of total test of 299 LH of 8.5. my free T levels were always low normal prior to HRT i had a estrodial test done last year that number was 35. i have had so many tests done it would make your head spin. i have never done AAS before in my life. i am hypothyroid take levoxyl 250mcgs a day. man was i feeling good with 5 grams of androgel and DIM. just don't want to go back to the way i was feeling prior to hrt or before i was taking the DIM while on HRT.

 

[pmgamer18]

When you started to feel bad was you libido and morning wood gone to I think you are to low on your E2 taking 2 pills a day is dam high for the amount of T you are on. I take one half a pill a day and I am doing 150 mgs. a week of depo t shots. Stop the DIM until your morning wood comes back out wait for SWALE to get back to you. I have gone to low to many times and the longer you are to low the longer it takes to get to your old self.
Phil

 

[wrathe]

from what i know;and have read, if swale cuts you back that is a positive thing! meaning if your t level is too high you wont feel as good as if it is right in the target zone! so look at the bright side!

 

[Kroms_laugh]

I've heard it can take some people almost a year to get their HRT tuned.

 

[earthdog]

Yes, don't get discouraged. If T is too high, then you may feel crappy as well. Plus, good chance E2 was high, too. Be patient, Swale will take care of you.

 

[cpeil2]

I've heard it can take some people almost a year to get their HRT tuned.

I suspect that's at least how long it's going to take me.

 

[Weatherlite]

There are a couple of other possibilities that haven't been mentioned yet. First, is that you may be converting too much of your T to DHT. Can't know without labs of course. Second, you may be applying the gel to the wrong spots. What I mean is this....are you applying the gel near the area that the lab tech draws your blood from? A friend of mine is a lab tech and he's mentioned how some guys would get elevated T levels with the gel being as far away as 2 inches from the draw site. I guess the T gets soaked into the surrounding skin and then, when the needle goes in, some of it gets sucked up into the tube leading to erroneously high T readings.

Just a possibility. Figured I'd bring it up.

Also, really, unless yer doc says it's OK you shouldn't start taking meds, even DIM. Doing so can mess up some of the lab work and mislead his diagnosis/treatment recommendation.

Good luck bro. Keep us informed!

 

[BigRagu]

I've heard it can take some people almost a year to get their HRT tuned.

a year........holy christmas........ i have been on mine for 4 months and we are almost done........ i would of been set a long time ago if it wasn't so dam hard to get appointments ................

 

[ciobl]

paragraphs? spread them out? what am i in english class. i got a god chuckle out of that one. hey novice thanks for making me laugh.

peewee327 -> seriously bro, wait for swale, a week from now and all of the unwell feelings you had will be history, a bad dream, give it time, we all have been there, going through the same. You dont want to self-administered something even if it feels good. Remember we all are like hot rods it takes time to tune them in.

Also, you might want to reconsider changing the workout routines if you can by readjusting the schedule you are currently on. One thing for sure, even if it's not the root of the problem it is always stimulating to change the hours you go to the gym.

 

[peewee327]

thanks for the reply's guys. i was on DIM prior to HRT and once started HRT i stopped taking the DIM then had bloods taken and then started taking the DIM again. i was feeling so shitty i didn't know what to do. thought heck let me try something. let me tell ya i was feeling crappy. prior to taking my labs i hadn't applied any gel, had showered and then had blood drawn. i didn't want to mess the labs up with possibly applying the gel to the area where they were going to take blood. so i had thought of that. so what you guys are saying is to come off the DIM until SWALE tells me further. i think you guys are right. like i said thanks again for the support looking foward to feeling better.

 

[coz]

Just to clarify - are you wondering why you felt bad during the first 3 weeks - before you started taking the DIM ?

If so, it may be due to E2 being to high - as your T levels were very high & probably alot was converting to E2. The DIM may have then lowered it. However you would need labs to prove this.

 

[peewee327]

i am just awaiting swale on his interpretation of the labs will know for sure soon. let me throw this out at you guys. how long does the gel stay in your skin where you apply it. here is why i am asking. i apply the gel on my upper and lower arms going over the spot where they would draw blood. was doing this for 3 weeks prior to the labs being drawn. even though on the day of my lab test and when i had my blood draw i had not yet applied the gel to my arms and had showered and it was about 20hours after my prior applciation is there still gel within the skin at the area of application that could of some how influenced my blood tests. hmmm, starting to wonder on that. i am not changing my dose until i hear from swale and i am not going to take the DIM until i get word from swale. i have just applied todays dose to the inside of my thighs, i am staying away from the arm area until further notice. i will keep you guys informed on my progress. thanks for your help and support.

 

[pmgamer18]

I was on the gels from day one and have allways got my blood tests first before putting on the gel. 20 hrs. is good the skin acts like a reserve for the gel. I was told by the drug rep at my Dr.'s to get your blood test first then put on the gel.
Phil

 

[SWALE]

This is a HUGE point: my guys are not to add, subtract, or change the dose of anything which alters hormone levels without my saying so. It's hard enough to do this stuff without having to stand in a rocking boat while doing so.