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LABS toward end of Torem PCT, help!!

size26s said:
Lol sorry told you kinda new can I delete that and thanks for the quick reply
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I deleted it for you :D

If you're really in need for research grade, there is a company with recent talk in the underground here. Read through that, and see if it would be what you're looking for.
 
Interesting thread, I have had good success with CEM torem...
 
Im not a big torem fan as it is. Its anecdotally , by many bros, supposed to be great but its really only shown in one study i know of to increase T with any clinical significance and even in that it was more significantly shown to be good for spermatogenisis (FSH) and sperm motility.. not as much LH and overall T levels. Clomid Nolva is much more effective in my experience AND has way more clinical backing. It works great for me..thats why I never switched to torem. If it isnt broke dont fix it.
 
Jimmyinkedup said:
Im not a big torem fan as it is. Its anecdotally , by many bros, supposed to be great but its really only shown in one study i know of to increase T with any clinical significance and even in that it was more significantly shown to be good for spermatogenisis (FSH) and sperm motility.. not as much LH and overall T levels. Clomid Nolva is much more effective in my experience AND has way more clinical backing. It works great for me..thats why I never switched to torem. If it isnt broke dont fix it.
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I'm sticking to nolva/clomid as well.....
 
Jimmyinkedup said:
Im not a big torem fan as it is. Its anecdotally , by many bros, supposed to be great but its really only shown in one study i know of to increase T with any clinical significance and even in that it was more significantly shown to be good for spermatogenisis (FSH) and sperm motility.. not as much LH and overall T levels. Clomid Nolva is much more effective in my experience AND has way more clinical backing. It works great for me..thats why I never switched to torem. If it isnt broke dont fix it.
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Thanks Capt. Hindsight. Any other gems you wanna drop?

Secondly, someone has to pioneer, wouldn't you agree? The "if it ain't broke" mentality is great if you like dying of the clap, VHS tapes, and hand crank phonographs.

If guys hadn't pioneered the use of Clomid/Nolva in the first place, we wouldn't have PCT. Ditto AI's for E2 control.

Aren't you also the guy who asked Dr. Scally 17 different ways if UDCA was efficient for liver protection, and every time he shut you down you kept up with why he couldn't be right and why you'd take it anyways?

I'm not trying to outright attack you, but this kind of shit just pisses me off. You're in no way helping anyone with these kinds of posts. You're salt rubbing, and I just don't like that.
 
Candyskull said:
Thanks Capt. Hindsight. Any other gems you wanna drop?

Secondly, someone has to pioneer, wouldn't you agree? The "if it ain't broke" mentality is great if you like dying of the clap, VHS tapes, and hand crank phonographs.

If guys hadn't pioneered the use of Clomid/Nolva in the first place, we wouldn't have PCT. Ditto AI's for E2 control.

Aren't you also the guy who asked Dr. Scally 17 different ways if UDCA was efficient for liver protection, and every time he shut you down you kept up with why he couldn't be right and why you'd take it anyways?

I'm not trying to outright attack you, but this kind of shit just pisses me off. You're in no way helping anyone with these kinds of posts. You're salt rubbing, and I just don't like that.
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Hey smartass, if you had any clue about the relationship the OP and I have you would know im not rubbing salt into anything. He and I get along very well and tend to agree on the majority of the topics we discuss. UDCA is used in clinical setting to treat liver disorders effectively and there are numerous studies showing this, torem has exactly what I said it does- one study. Im sorry you took offense to my post, im sorry it pisses you off, but its my opinion and explanation as to why I dont use toremfene. Dont pretend to know my intent when you have no clue, obviously. Am I glad there are trailblazers like Duchaine etc, sure, am I willing to risk HPTA recovery to be one - hell no. I dont give a damn if you like my post of not, maybe if you didnt incorrectly speculate the intent of it, it wouldnt bother you so much. You know what they say about people who assume, right?
 
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Jimmyinkedup said:
Hey smartass, if you had any clue about the relationship the OP and I have you would know im not rubbing salt into anything. He and I get along very well and tend to agree on the majority of the topics we discuss. UDCA is used in clinical setting to treat liver disorders effectively and there are numerous studies showing this, torem has exactly what I said it does- one study. Im sorry you took offense to my post, im sorry it pisses you off, but its my opinion and explanation as to why I dont use toremfene. Dont pretend to know my intent when you have no clue, obviously. Am I glad there are trailblazers like Duchaine etc, sure, am I willing to risk HPTA recovery to be one - hell no. I dont give a damn if you like my post of not, maybe if you didnt incorrectly speculate the intent of it, it wouldnt bother you so much. You know what they say about people who assume, right?
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Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it? I didn't assume anything. Your post was unhelpful period. I didn't need to know where you were coming from or what your intent was to see that as a FACT. All you did was state what is already well known, AFTER THE FACT.

I could give a damn if you're willing to risk your HPTA or not. Johnny was, and your post does jack shit to help him at this point.

I personally linked you two studies showing the UDCA is not only not useful, but it actually caused liver damage, and a doctor, whom you claimed to have wanted the opinion of, and said you would refer to his expertise told you it's worthless, and you still persisted. I'm sure there's a clinical study somewhere stating that thalidomide is safe for pregnant women to, but maybe your parents should have deferred to the other available literature at the time.

I don't want beef with you, alright? I just don't see what possible help your post could have been, as all it basically says is "told you so". Well, gee, thanks. I'll be sure not to let you know if any of the risks I take actually work out, and you can wait for clinical studies on an illegal, underground set of drugs that I'm sure people are just lined up for.

I'm out. Sorry I ranted in your thread ballz.
 
Well shit, I am sitting on a bottle of Torem from them for my upcoming PCT.

Better call in back up.

Thanks for the Heads Up JB
 
weekend said:
clomid + torem is the superior combo of any two serms for complete upregulation of the HPTA
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I often wondered about this. So torem is a subsitute for nolva and not a substitue for both? That makes more sense to me than just using torem in place of both nolva and clomid..
 
BIGMESC said:
Well shit, I am sitting on a bottle of Torem from them for my upcoming PCT.

Better call in back up.

Thanks for the Heads Up JB
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Yah i wonder if it's just the torem that's bad or all the serms and AI's. Makes me wonder I'm sitting on some of there supplements as well. I wonder if there is any way to test these products, like labmax but for serms.
 
raysugar1234 said:
So torem increases fertility like clomid, Maybe torem would be a better substiute for clomid and not nolva. Since nolva is usefull for blocking estrogen at the receptor...
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Actually Toremifene is better than Tamoxifene for that (receptor blocking) if you read the breast cancer studies. It does aid male fertility, but through a different mechanism of action than Clomid because Clomid is essentially synthetic LH.
 
Candyskull said:
Actually Toremifene is better than Tamoxifene for that (receptor blocking) if you read the breast cancer studies. It does aid male fertility, but through a different mechanism of action than Clomid because Clomid is essentially synthetic LH.
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I see, I'm going do so more research on this... Seems like there is more information now then last time I checked..
 
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