Lat width

[NovaFlex]

When I first came to Meso, back in 2015, one of the first pictures I saw was of Trukker’s back. It’s stuck with me for 6 years now, haha. I wanted to someday obtain a mountain like that.

-Since being on this cut, my definition has been coming out daily...and now I’m preparing to grow, after the next 12 weeks—but all I really know is strength work and accessories—hence the thickness. I can’t seem to add that real width to my back.

Can anyone with a shield on their back give me some pointers?

Video for reference—my lats are there, just now nearly developed enough.

 

[Eman]

You can add width with most standard back exercises, it just depends on how good you are with contracting the area you want to focus on.

Straight arm pushdowns tend to be pretty easy to contract the outer edges of the lats, straight into the serratus because of the arm position... If you can get good at drawing the handle down into a hard flex in the lats, it helps you "feel" that muscle and you can do it on other lifts.

 

[NovaFlex]

You can add width with most standard back exercises, it just depends on how good you are with contracting the area you want to focus on.

Straight arm pushdowns tend to be pretty easy to contract the outer edges of the lats, straight into the serratus because of the arm position... If you can get good at drawing the handle down into a hard flex in the lats, it helps you "feel" that muscle and you can do it on other lifts.

That may be one of my issues—for the most part, I’ve never focused on feeling / contractions, etc. I’ve tried, but never got any good at it.

I’m gonna give straight arms a shot. I’ve been meaning to anyway.

 

[Johnny250]

Nova, do you have access to a Nautilus pullover machine? I start every back day with this machine. I got the idea from watching a Dorian Yates interview. He swears by them. They have helped me tremendously.

 

[NovaFlex]

Nova, do you have access to a Nautilus pullover machine? I start every back day with this machine. I got the idea from watching a Dorian Yates interview. He swears by them. They have helped me tremendously.

Unfortunately not, man. I workout from home. I’ve heard great things about them, though.

 

[bob357sig]

From what I have observed, what separates the guys with good width and thickness from everybody else is the lower lats. Good lower lat development makes the lats really flair out, even from the front view. For me, the only way I can really feel my lower lats working is with reverse grip. Reverse grip pull downs and reverse grip rows, with a nice slow controlled contraction really pump my lats up. I still have a ways to go though myself lol.

 

[jJjburton]

Also a smaller waist brings the appearence of width. I realized this with my shoulders, when i have a smaller waist my shoulders look bigger.

 

[jJjburton]

From what I have observed, what separates the guys with good width and thickness from everybody else is the lower lats. Good lower lat development makes the lats really flair out, even from the front view. For me, the only way I can really feel my lower lats working is with reverse grip. Reverse grip pull downs and reverse grip rows, with a nice slow controlled contraction really pump my lats up. I still have a ways to go though myself lol.

V bar close grip lat pulldowns. The close grip neautral position his lower lats. Alot

 

[Perrin Aybara]

When my lats were at their absolute best was when I was alternating horizontal pulls and vertical pulls every time I was in the gym. Lots of sets of 10+ chin ups and pull ups and higher rep chest supported rows. Was lower bodyfat at the time as well. Small waist and big shoulders helps too obviously.

 

[NovaFlex]

From what I have observed, what separates the guys with good width and thickness from everybody else is the lower lats. Good lower lat development makes the lats really flair out, even from the front view. For me, the only way I can really feel my lower lats working is with reverse grip. Reverse grip pull downs and reverse grip rows, with a nice slow controlled contraction really pump my lats up. I still have a ways to go though myself lol.

Also a smaller waist brings the appearence of width. I realized this with my shoulders, when i have a smaller waist my shoulders look bigger.

V bar close grip lat pulldowns. The close grip neautral position his lower lats. Alot

When my lats were at their absolute best was when I was alternating horizontal pulls and vertical pulls every time I was in the gym. Lots of sets of 10+ chin ups and pull ups and higher rep chest supported rows. Was lower bodyfat at the time as well. Small waist and big shoulders helps too obviously.

Great advice here. Thanks brothers.

-I try to alternate vertical / horizontal. I haven’t been doing enough higher rep stuff with rows tho...I stay between 8-15 ish. Maybe I should bring it up to 20ish sometimes.

-I just added a back day to the mix...Well, it’s my normal DL day, but focused on back accessories now instead of more posterior stuff with hams / glutes etc. I figure one day of that is enough for now to just maintain.

 

[Eman]

I stay between 8-15 ish. Maybe I should bring it up to 20ish sometimes.

You can periodize this, similar to powerlifting blocks.

It would be something like 15-20 rep range at 3RIR, then 15-20 at 2RIR, then 15-20 at 1RIR, then 15-20 at failure. That's one block, then you'd deload.

Next block it would be the same, but you'd lower the rep range to 12-15. Then you'd lower to 8-12 on the following block. Then you start over at the higher rep range... Although, the rep range isn't quite as important as organizing the RIR.

 

[Brandaddy]

Most important thing is definitely your bf%. Plenty of guys with meaty wings on them but look like spongebob squarepants because their waist is bloated. Also, plenty of guys who aren't really that jacked but look like they are because they have good proportions.

With that being said. I have yet to meet a guy with some big wings in person who doesn't regularly do some form of deadlifts and a lot of pullups/pulldowns. In fact, the only couple people I know in person that do have big lats actually train more like old school bodybuilders. Heavy compound lifts for a lot of volume.

 

[jJjburton]

Ahat

You can periodize this, similar to powerlifting blocks.

It would be something like 15-20 rep range at 3RIR, then 15-20 at 2RIR, then 15-20 at 1RIR, then 15-20 at failure. That's one block, then you'd deload.

Next block it would be the same, but you'd lower the rep range to 12-15. Then you'd lower to 8-12 on the following block. Then you start over at the higher rep range... Although, the rep range isn't quite as important as organizing the

What is RIR?

 

[TSud]

Ahat

What is RIR?

Reps In Reserve. Ill leave it to @Eman to expand on it more if he wants to. He’s talked about it before and is much more knowledgeable and experienced on the subject then I am, but at least i can tell you what it stands for.

 

[Eman]

Ahat

What is RIR?

Reps in reserve... In other words, leaving 2 reps "in the tank" is a 2rir set. It's similar to the RPE scale - rir is just used more often as a hypertrophy scale.

 

[NovaFlex]

You can periodize this, similar to powerlifting blocks.

It would be something like 15-20 rep range at 3RIR, then 15-20 at 2RIR, then 15-20 at 1RIR, then 15-20 at failure. That's one block, then you'd deload.

Next block it would be the same, but you'd lower the rep range to 12-15. Then you'd lower to 8-12 on the following block. Then you start over at the higher rep range... Although, the rep range isn't quite as important as organizing the RIR.

Definitely familiar with RIR. I watch a lot of DR. Mike’s stuff. When we’re talking blocks, like PL, we’re talking 3-4 weeks, DL, start another? I’ve never gotten the hang of hypertrophy work. It seems foreign to me, lol.

Most important thing is definitely your bf%. Plenty of guys with meaty wings on them but look like spongebob squarepants because their waist is bloated. Also, plenty of guys who aren't really that jacked but look like they are because they have good proportions.

With that being said. I have yet to meet a guy with some big wings in person who doesn't regularly do some form of deadlifts and a lot of pullups/pulldowns. In fact, the only couple people I know in person that do have big lats actually train more like old school bodybuilders. Heavy compound lifts for a lot of volume.

I can tell bf% plays a huge role. I’ve seen a lot of changes in my musculature since taking my cutting seriously.

-I’m good on the DL part, as you know. I definitely could stand to add some more volume tho.

-so technically I could have some decent lats hiding under there, that would come out more when I continue to lose BF.

 

[malfeasance]

I was going to chime in about body fat, but Brandaddy beat me to it. If you cut your body fat down to single digits you would see much more of a v-shape, since the last place most men hold fat when cutting is lower back and out to the sides ("love handles"). Getting rid of that fat down there in the lower back, and more of the V shape shows through.

With that having been said, it might sound odd, but barbell rows made the biggest difference for me over a period of 5 years. I know everybody says this is a "thickener" not a "widener," but I row overhand and pull low into the groin/lower weightlifting belt area, and I have always felt this in my lower lats when I really squeeze my elbows back at the top of the rep range. I also stay bent over, not standing up like I have seen some do it. I literally almost drag the weight up my thighs after clearing my knees.

It sounds odd, but it worked for me. Try reducing the weight until you can really get that squeeze at the top when pulling the elbows back, and row low, not up to the chest or even the stomach, but try to get into that groin area and squeeze a hard contraction at the top of the bar movement, pulling it up hard against your weightlifting belt.

But a cut down to 7-8% will make the biggest difference in the appearance of your back.

 

[jJjburton]

Reps in reserve... In other words, leaving 2 reps "in the tank" is a 2rir set. It's similar to the RPE scale - rir is just used more often as a hypertrophy scale.

Ok yes i totally understand the concept it, just didnt know it had an Acronym. Thank you

 

[NovaFlex]

I was going to chime in about body fat, but Brandaddy beat me to it. If you cut your body fat down to single digits you would see much more of a v-shape, since the last place most men hold fat when cutting is lower back and out to the sides ("love handles"). Getting rid of that fat down there in the lower back, and more of the V shape shows through.

With that having been said, it might sound odd, but barbell rows made the biggest difference for me over a period of 5 years. I know everybody says this is a "thickener" not a "widener," but I row overhand and pull low into the groin/lower weightlifting belt area, and I have always felt this in my lower lats when I really squeeze my elbows back at the top of the rep range. I also stay bent over, not standing up like I have seen some do it. I literally almost drag the weight up my thighs after clearing my knees.

It sounds odd, but it worked for me. Try reducing the weight until you can really get that squeeze at the top when pulling the elbows back, and row low, not up to the chest or even the stomach, but try to get into that groin area and squeeze a hard contraction at the top of the bar movement, pulling it up hard against your weightlifting belt.

But a cut down to 7-8% will make the biggest difference in the appearance of your back.

I’ll try that. I’ve always pulled to my belly button.

 

[malfeasance]

I’ll try that. I’ve always pulled to my belly button.

LOL! Probably zero difference, then, since you are already pulling it low, but let me know if it changes the way it feels in the lower lats, anyway.