Lethargy on cycle

[mrwalters]

I am 3/4 way through my second cycle.
My first cycle was about a year ago.

This time around I am feeling lethargic. I normally have unlimited energy, and now I find myself laying down most of the time I’m home.

My cycle is currently:
400mg test C/ week
500mg primo / week
10mg suspension pre-workout (5x week past month)
10mg anavar pre-workout (5x week past few weeks)

I’m on week 17 of my planned 25 week cycle. I’ve titrated dosages up slowly over the weeks.
Not taking any AI’s, just a handful of ancillaries (Tudca, vitamins, cialis, etc)

My blood pressure is fine and other than the lethargy I feel ok. Strength at the gym is great, but motivation outside of the gym is near zero. Household chores have fallen by the wayside and I find myself falling asleep at my desk at the office.

I checked my bloodwork pre-cycle and all was well. Probably due for bloodwork now but haven’t done it yet since I’m close to the end of this cycle.

In y’all’s experience, is this normal, is there things I should consider changing or looking further into?

 

[Ghoul]

Without bloodwork it's going to be a guessing game.

It could be high estrogen.

If not that your sleep might be disturbed from the gear.

Or it could be mild depression.

Or pre-diabetes.

Or bad gear.

Have you had a hormone panel lately? They're fairly inexpensive and easy to get done.

How. old are you? Do you use cannibis?

 

[ksm2]

Drop the primo

 

[Ghoul]

Drop the primo

Do you think that's crushing his estrogen or something else?

 

[ksm2]

Do you think that's crushing his estrogen or something else?

Just my personal experience. I couldn't even say for sure if it's crushed estrogen, or high hematocrit or whatever.

For me it is, as soon as i add primo no matter the dosage, i always feel like shit.

 

[mrwalters]

Blood sugar
I have been running a continuous glucose monitor and my insulin is on the high side of green, but still ok. My A1C has always been borderline touching pre-diabetes.

Sleep
I sleep like a baby, no snoring etc.
I don’t think the gear is bad, though I did just send off the primo to jano to have it tested just for peace of mind.

Primo
Dropping the primo would be a doable option. I prefer to keep running it because I have it in my head to do so, but if it ain’t helping or if it’s hurting, it’s gone. I really don’t want to drop it without good cause.

Depression
I suppose it could be this, though nothing is wrong in my world. I don’t use weed much at all. Drinking is almost non-existent during cycle.

Age
im 45. Been working out since I was a kid.

 

[Ghoul]

Blood sugar
I have been running a continuous glucose monitor and my insulin is on the high side of green, but still ok. My A1C has always been borderline touching pre-diabetes.

Sleep
I sleep like a baby, no snoring etc.
I don’t think the gear is bad, though I did just send off the primo to jano to have it tested just for peace of mind.

Primo
Dropping the primo would be a doable option. I prefer to keep running it because I have it in my head to do so, but if it ain’t helping or if it’s hurting, it’s gone. I really don’t want to drop it without good cause.

Depression
I suppose it could be this, though nothing is wrong in my world. I don’t use weed much at all. Drinking is almost non-existent during cycle.

Age
im 45. Been working out since I was a kid.

Since a CGM is prescription only I assume your borderline A1C has been going on for a while.

From my layman's understanding, symptoms of diabetes can start to appear from chronically elevated A1C.

I know GLPs can be extremely effective at bringing A1C into a healthy range quickly, so perhaps give that a try. You won't qualify for Diabetes, so it'd have to be BMI over 29 to get it for weight loss if you're able to go the insurance route.

Otherwise self treatment with it is obviously an option, and the CGM monitor will give you some confidence you're not going hypoglycemic, but that's a rarity with GlPs anyway. You can use a non-weight loss dose and still get the A1C benefits if you don't want to suppress appetite.

I hate lethargy, it's like carrying an anvil around while trying to live your life.

 

[Primo_build]

Pull bloods and check estrogen. When I tank mine I lose all energy

 

[xrayphoton13]

I would check e2 with an ultrasensitive estrogen lab test. In many people primo will lower e2, that's why so many run primo at 1/3 or 1/2 the dose of testosterone. Running primo higher than test could have completely crushed your estrogen. But we won't know without the lab work. Personally I get tired any time my androgen load gets up past 700mg/week

 

[Juicedhead]

I would check e2 with an ultrasensitive estrogen lab test. In many people primo will lower e2, that's why so many run primo at 1/3 or 1/2 the dose of testosterone. Running primo higher than test could have completely crushed your estrogen. But we won't know without the lab work. Personally I get tired any time my androgen load gets up past 700mg/week

I get tired anytime I’m on a heavy cycle just the way it is I hear a lot of guys say this. Could also be the added muscle your body wants to sleep more until your system adjusts to it. Gaining a lot of muscle really quickly can throw off your system. At least for me anyway I’ve noticed this especially if I’m eating a surplus I’m tired a lot.

 

[cdoubleu]

When did the lethargy start?

If you’re recently lethargic maybe being on week 17 is your answer.

 

[Jin23]

I am 3/4 way through my second cycle.
My first cycle was about a year ago.

This time around I am feeling lethargic. I normally have unlimited energy, and now I find myself laying down most of the time I’m home.

My cycle is currently:
400mg test C/ week
500mg primo / week
10mg suspension pre-workout (5x week past month)
10mg anavar pre-workout (5x week past few weeks)

I’m on week 17 of my planned 25 week cycle. I’ve titrated dosages up slowly over the weeks.
Not taking any AI’s, just a handful of ancillaries (Tudca, vitamins, cialis, etc)

My blood pressure is fine and other than the lethargy I feel ok. Strength at the gym is great, but motivation outside of the gym is near zero. Household chores have fallen by the wayside and I find myself falling asleep at my desk at the office.

I checked my bloodwork pre-cycle and all was well. Probably due for bloodwork now but haven’t done it yet since I’m close to the end of this cycle.

In y’all’s experience, is this normal, is there things I should consider changing or looking further into?

You've been on cycle for 17 weeks and haven't done a single set of bloods?

Search the forum on how primo effects estrogen. It's been written at length. However, low estrogenicity has a slew of other issues, for one, sleep becomes very shallow and fragmented, so if you are sleeping sound then this might not be the case. However, even with normal peripheral blood e2 numbers, primo could still be the culprit as it's anti estrogen actions are very tissue specific.

Besides low estrogenicity, low iron (measured by TSAT and ferritin or ret-he) is also a possibility as iron deregulation, due to aas lowering hepcidin, is a very frequent occurrence with people who use anabolics.

Without more information/specifics on how you feel and certainly without bloods, this are the two most likely culprits.

 

[mrwalters]

I can agree with the low estrogen effects of primo. Last year I titratrd up to 700mg/wk of primo and my estradiol dropped to 20’ish by week 12. This time around I increased my testosterone and decreased the primo. But without bloodwork I won’t know for sure if it was enough of a decrease.

Suspension
To combat the low estrogen, should that be what it was, I added in T suspension at a light dose.
My iron level is good. I donate blood regularly and take a ferritin supplement, last donation about a month ago I was in the green.

Dosage
I’m considering halfing my primo dose until I pull bloodwork. I feel that my gains from primo/test are relatively mild and a dosage that is less would be almost not worth doing.

When my Estradiol level was 20 last go around, I couldn’t have get better. But I shouldn’t be guessing what I’m at I was and just get bloodwork.

The glucose monitor is not diabetes related, I have a doc that I pay cash to get me things I want. Blood tests through them are $$$, averaging 800-1000$ each time.

What do yall reccomend

 

[mrwalters]

cut myself off there.

What do yall recommend for getting a good price on bloodwork.

 

[1Megaman]

Pull blood work I think that’s most important. I wouldn’t drop the primo but I would cut the doese in half. See what blood work tells you and go from there. Last cycle I was having some lethargy issues also e2 was fine iron was low came back at 10. Got that up and started feeling better. But it’s hard to guess with out pulling bloods.

 

[mrwalters]

I attached a PDF screenshot of my this weeks cycle and supplements. If anything jumps out at y'all let me know. I will work on scheduling bloodwork.

 

[Jin23]

But without bloodwork I won’t know for sure if it was enough of a decrease.

I said do some research. With compounds like primo, serum bloodwork doesn't tell the whole story.

My iron level is good. I donate blood regularly and take a ferritin supplement, last donation about a month ago I was in the green.

I was talking about iron deficiency not excess. Regular iron donations could be the culprit. Do an iron panel: serum iron, TSAT, ferritin.

* There is no such thing as a "ferritin supplement".

 

[mrwalters]

In the past I was low on iron. My doc at Marek put me on a supplement to bring it back up and it hasn’t been an issue.
Whatever OPTIFERIN C and that beef liver supplennt does, I take that and iron has been good ever since, including in my last blood donation a month ago.

I plan on doing a full panel after cycle and PCT but that runs me around $1k through my practitioner.

Is there a site that yall recommend for pulling bloodwork that is more cost effective.

 

[Sector]

Usually when I get lethargic on cycle it's one of the following reasons:
1) Low E2
2) Bloodwork/lipids in the garbage
3) Overtraining the CNS and need a deload week
4) low carb diet
5) not enough sleep
6) GH (makes me lethargic af)

 

[mrwalters]

Usually when I get lethargic on cycle it's one of the following reasons:
1) Low E2
2) Bloodwork/lipids in the garbage
3) Overtraining the CNS and need a deload week
4) low carb diet
5) not enough sleep
6) GH (makes me lethargic af)

Good info.
#1 & 2 are what I suspect, the rest are non issues in my case.

Given the consensus of input, I’ll pull back on the primo to 200/wk and then get bloodwork pulled next week and see where I’m at.