Lethargy on cycle

[AHplayer13]

Low e2 from primo did this to me a few months ago. My test/primo ratio was 1:1. Bloods had e2 at 17. Dropped the ratio to 2:1 and smooth sailing since.

Gillett Health has the best deal I’ve found for a comprehensive lab package that really includes everything you need (you can contact them to add on anything else). They use Labcorp for the draw. Privatemdlabs is another good one and Marek lab builder is nice for a strictly a la carte option.

 

[mrwalters]

Low e2 from primo did this to me a few months ago. My test/primo ratio was 1:1. Bloods had e2 at 17. Dropped the ratio to 2:1 and smooth sailing since.

Gillett Health has the best deal I’ve found for a comprehensive lab package that really includes everything you need (you can contact them to add on anything else). They use Labcorp for the draw. Privatemdlabs is another good one and Marek lab builder is nice for a strictly a la carte option.

Thanks for the input. I’ll look into Gillett.

From most of what I’ve seen, many don’t think primo is very effective until dosage hits 500+

For me that would put my testosterone base high if it’s a 2:1 ratio for me as well.

When I go over 400mg/test a week I balloon up, but that was when I was on testosterone only.

Now that I’ve titrated up to 400mg/wk of test along w similar primo dosage alongside, I don’t feel ballooned. Just lethargic and shoulders are achy when I hit the heavy weights.

Strength has increased where my limiting factor is my joints. I’ve switched to higher reps and more sets to limit the heavy weights.

I’ll get the labs run and drop the primo down to half my testosterone until I get results back.

Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[AHplayer13]

Thanks for the input. I’ll look into Gillett.

From most of what I’ve seen, many don’t think primo is very effective until dosage hits 500+

For me that would put my testosterone base high if it’s a 2:1 ratio for me as well.

When I go over 400mg/test a week I balloon up, but that was when I was on testosterone only.

Now that I’ve titrated up to 400mg/wk of test along w similar primo dosage alongside, I don’t feel ballooned. Just lethargic and shoulders are achy when I hit the heavy weights.

Strength has increased where my limiting factor is my joints. I’ve switched to higher reps and more sets to limit the heavy weights.

I’ll get the labs run and drop the primo down to half my testosterone until I get results back.

Thanks for all the input guys.

Thanks for the input. I’ll look into Gillett.

From most of what I’ve seen, many don’t think primo is very effective until dosage hits 500+

For me that would put my testosterone base high if it’s a 2:1 ratio for me as well.

When I go over 400mg/test a week I balloon up, but that was when I was on testosterone only.

Now that I’ve titrated up to 400mg/wk of test along w similar primo dosage alongside, I don’t feel ballooned. Just lethargic and shoulders are achy when I hit the heavy weights.

Strength has increased where my limiting factor is my joints. I’ve switched to higher reps and more sets to limit the heavy weights.

I’ll get the labs run and drop the primo down to half my testosterone until I get results back.

Thanks for all the input guys.

I think lower dose primo is very effective if run long-term (cruise). It’s not one of those that you “feel”—but over time you will definitely see the difference.

 

[xrayphoton13]

For cheap bloodwork I use ultalabs.com . Sign up for their newsletter. They are always sending out codes for like 25% off. I would consider the test suspension a bonus on the cycle as it's in and out so fast. E2 is slower to respond up and down so I would control the e2 with your regular test and primo

 

[Primo_build]

cut myself off there.

What do yall recommend for getting a good price on bloodwork.

If you have health insurance, tell your doctor what you're doing and ask them to order test for you. I like quest. Side note: Never lie to your doctor or your lawyer. They're the only ones who can save you.

 

[Primo_build]

Good info.
#1 & 2 are what I suspect, the rest are non issues in my case.

Given the consensus of input, I’ll pull back on the primo to 200/wk and then get bloodwork pulled next week and see where I’m at.

If you're trying to figure out what the issue is, you shouldn't lower the primo just yet. You'll simply be continuing the problem and not figuring it out. Don't self diagnose or let us lead you. Speak to Dr. Pull bloods. And stay the course. Then you'll know how your body reacts to what and to what degree. If you drop primo now, how would you determine it was the primo? Steady hormones are what you want. Not guess work brother.

 

[jJjburton]

Usually when I get lethargic on cycle it's one of the following reasons:
1) Low E2
2) Bloodwork/lipids in the garbage
3) Overtraining the CNS and need a deload week
4) low carb diet
5) not enough sleep
6) GH (makes me lethargic af)

Would you consider fasting cardio only for a week, enough as a deload week?

 

[mrwalters]

If you're trying to figure out what the issue is, you shouldn't lower the primo just yet. You'll simply be continuing the problem and not figuring it out. Don't self diagnose or let us lead you. Speak to Dr. Pull bloods. And stay the course. Then you'll know how your body reacts to what and to what degree. If you drop primo now, how would you determine it was the primo? Steady hormones are what you want. Not guess work brother.

Would you consider fasting cardio only for a week, enough as a deload week?

I agree with you about Deloading being important. About 4 weeks back I did a complete deload and it worked wonders. That was near the beginning of when I started to feel lethargic.
For ym reload I went to the gym for two 30 minute sessions of light weights, at half the sets and half the weight and half the reps.

I'll be ready for another reload week come here soon.

 

[mrwalters]

If you're trying to figure out what the issue is, you shouldn't lower the primo just yet. You'll simply be continuing the problem and not figuring it out. Don't self diagnose or let us lead you. Speak to Dr. Pull bloods. And stay the course. Then you'll know how your body reacts to what and to what degree. If you drop primo now, how would you determine it was the primo? Steady hormones are what you want. Not guess work brother.

That makes sense too, keep from changing things and see where I am at. Probably the best approach at this juncture.

I just ordered the comprehensive lab panel from Gillett Health and will get my labs pulled ASAP.

 

[Sector]

Would you consider fasting cardio only for a week, enough as a deload week?

I would yeah.

During my deload weeks I'll take the entire week off and only run/walk. I only do this like once or twice a year (depending on CNS feels), but I swear taking a deload week supercharges you. You come back more motivated, with more adrenaline, the lifts are more enjoyable and you just feel fresh and strong

 

[Ghoul]

If you have health insurance, tell your doctor what you're doing and ask them to order test for you. I like quest. Side note: Never lie to your doctor or your lawyer. They're the only ones who can save you.

I tell my doctor sensitive information on a need to know basis. Too much information regarding illegal behavior they disapprove of can lead to being fired as patient, or more likely, every interaction will be tainted from that point forward leading to worse care.

 

[Eddie.]

Given the consensus of input, I’ll pull back on the primo to 200/wk and then get bloodwork pulled next week and see where I’m at.

No, you better pull bloodwork and then adjust. If for some reason you drop primo and e2 starts climbing up and your bloodwork looks good then you will still know nothing.

 

[jJjburton]

I would yeah.

During my deload weeks I'll take the entire week off and only run/walk. I only do this like once or twice a year (depending on CNS feels), but I swear taking a deload week supercharges you. You come back more motivated, with more adrenaline, the lifts are more enjoyable and you just feel fresh and strong

Ok well will be doing so this week. I already did so yesterday and today. But yesterday i did do core, also pretty intensly. So i guess i will be starting today. Will go for a week. As i know cardio and weight lifting is working two different energy systems. The cardio is aerobic vs the anaerobic. Thus giving body some recovery time. Thank You.

 

[Primo_build]

I tell my doctor sensitive information on a need to know basis. Too much information regarding illegal behavior they disapprove of can lead to being fired as patient, or more likely, every interaction will be tainted from that point forward leading to worse care.

If that is your experience then I would recommend a new Doctor. I have established a relationship with mine, and while he may disapprove of somethings, He would certainly stay professional and allow me my own autonomy while remaining a great Dr. I wouldn't jeopardize my safety or health due to my Dr's outlook on aas. I'd find a more professional Dr.

 

[Ghoul]

If that is your experience then I would recommend a new Doctor. I have established a relationship with mine, and while he may disapprove of somethings, He would certainly stay professional and allow me my own autonomy while remaining a great Dr. I wouldn't jeopardize my safety or health due to my Dr's outlook on aas. I'd find a more professional Dr.

I lost the rose colored glasses regarding doctors long ago, over many experiences.

If you go to your doctor and say:

"I'm concerned my blood pressure is high"

They will take the basic steps to diagnose that you do have high BP, and after reviewing your existing meds via a system that ensures no negative interactions. they'll issue a prescription for whatever they think is appropriate.

If you say, "I use steroids. Here's a list of the illegal compounds I use made in underground labs, along with the various ancillary drugs I take along with them."

99% of doctors are going to be completely unfamiliar with steroids and the complex interplay between them and your biology. They are certainly not going to delve into this complex subject even most endocrinologists are ill educated on.

So when you then go to them with:

"My blood pressure is high and I'm concerned."

Since they have zero experience with the complex cocktail of underground hormones you're using, they are not going to throw caution and their medical license to the wind by issuing you a med when for all they know there might be a deadly reaction with something you're already taking. And since they document everything, their malpractice insurance won't cover any drug interaction harms resulting from them treating you after knowing this, because in court, the first thing a lawyer will ask when their client sues after having a stroke is "You have no experience or training in anabolic steroids and yet you issued the patient that medication?".

So while you and I know a BP med is not going to lead to disaster, what you're most likely to hear in response to "Treat my **whatever* is: "Stop using those steroids first, they're likely causing the problem.".

Unless you think your doctor will suddenly be motivated to educate themselves on a complex subject when most don't even have the basics of testosterone down.

 

[Ghoul]

To be clear. If I'm having serious symptoms I'm going to be completely forthright. I'm referring to the day to day interactions.

"Need to know." is the principle I'm following.

 

[Sector]

If that is your experience then I would recommend a new Doctor. I have established a relationship with mine, and while he may disapprove of somethings, He would certainly stay professional and allow me my own autonomy while remaining a great Dr. I wouldn't jeopardize my safety or health due to my Dr's outlook on aas. I'd find a more professional Dr.

I agree with this

Some doctors are good, some are terrible, like with any profession.

Mine happens to be utterly useless and I'm in the process of finding a new primary.

 

[Ghoul]

I agree with this

Some doctors are good, some are terrible, like with any profession.

Mine happens to be utterly useless and I'm in the process of finding a new primary.

You must be your own primary care provider.

Once you've taken charge of your health, the most valuable quality in a general practitioner is their willingness to cooperate.

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but no matter how good their bedside manner, they don't care about you nearly as much as you do.

The best medical minds don't go into general practice, the ones that stay on top of current developments and have a hunger for the knowledge that would serve your health best. That's the brutal truth.

They attend to basic medical care "housekeeping" requirements, but mostly act as gatekeepers between you and expensive resources.

After a relationship with my previous doc went south a few years after revealing I was using Sema I acquired in my own (he really freaked out when I showed him the vial), I currently have the best GP I've ever had. I bring issues to her attention, and what I think might be best next step. She either tells me why she disagrees, rarely, or sometimes spends a few minutes looking into whatever med or test I'm suggesting on the internet before going along with my request.

Sometimes she'll ask to try something else first, or if she's uncomfortable hands me off to a specialist to make to the decision.

You must actively direct your care and look at doctors as subordinate advisors for the best results.

 

[Sector]

You must be your own primary care provider.

Once you've taken charge of your health, the most valuable quality in a general practitioner is their willingness to cooperate.

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but no matter how good their bedside manner, they don't care about you nearly as much as you do.

The best medical minds don't go into general practice, the ones that stay on top of current developments and have a hunger for the knowledge that would serve your health best. That's the brutal truth.

They attend to basic medical care "housekeeping" requirements, but mostly act as gatekeepers between you and expensive resources.

After a relationship with my previous doc went south a few years after revealing I was using Sema I acquired in my own (he really freaked out when I showed him the vial), I currently have the best GP I've ever had. I bring issues to her attention, and what I think might be best next step. She either tells me why she disagrees, rarely, or sometimes spends a few minutes looking into whatever med or test I'm suggesting on the internet before going along with my request.

Sometimes she'll ask to try something else first, or if she's uncomfortable hands me off to a specialist to make to the decision.

You must actively direct your care and look at doctors as subordinate advisors for the best results.

Yeah I mean when I figure out a way to write my own prescriptions (legally) I'll definitely let you know. Until then, I'll have to rely on a crappy PCP until the months long wait list for this new doctor is up

 

[mrwalters]

I lost the rose colored glasses regarding doctors long ago, over many experiences.

If you go to your doctor and say:

"I'm concerned my blood pressure is high"

They will take the basic steps to diagnose that you do have high BP, and after reviewing your existing meds via a system that ensures no negative interactions. they'll issue a prescription for whatever they think is appropriate.

If you say, "I use steroids. Here's a list of the illegal compounds I use made in underground labs, along with the various ancillary drugs I take along with them."

99% of doctors are going to be completely unfamiliar with steroids and the complex interplay between them and your biology. They are certainly not going to delve into this complex subject even most endocrinologists are ill educated on.

So when you then go to them with:

"My blood pressure is high and I'm concerned."

Since they have zero experience with the complex cocktail of underground hormones you're using, they are not going to throw caution and their medical license to the wind by issuing you a med when for all they know there might be a deadly reaction with something you're already taking. And since they document everything, their malpractice insurance won't cover any drug interaction harms resulting from them treating you after knowing this, because in court, the first thing a lawyer will ask when their client sues after having a stroke is "You have no experience or training in anabolic steroids and yet you issued the patient that medication?".

So while you and I know a BP med is not going to lead to disaster, what you're most likely to hear in response to "Treat my **whatever* is: "Stop using those steroids first, they're likely causing the problem.".

Unless you think your doctor will suddenly be motivated to educate themselves on a complex subject when most don't even have the basics of testosterone down.

This is a good point.
I have health insurance through blue cross. I’ve been fortunate in health to not use a doctor outside of an accident/injury.

I should look into finding a primary care doc and getting some bang for my buck, I’ve been paying month premiums for something I could better take advantage of.

You make a good point about keeping the AAS to myself and having routine checks done, and getting some of these prescriptions available through insurance.