Let's Talk Prohormones...M1T, etc...

[AnimalMass]

Hey guys,

Crazy that a mod would be asking this, but I have been clean since Christmas, and want to stay that way, at least for awhile. Since I've been doing gear for 5 years, I have never given a thought to prohormones.

However, now they are my only choice. I would like to know what prohormones are best. Where can I go to research about them? What about M1T? Can I stack it with 1-AD, 4-ad, etc?

Please help fill me in.

Thanks,

AM

 

[SLick]

Mods !!!

MODS ARE REQUIRED TO USE GEAR ALL YEAR ROUND..


j/k bro.....I would like to know the answer as well...my body cant take as many cycles per year as i used to being im over 30 now....so, i was also looking into some prohormes to use for off-cycle periods...

Hey guys,

Crazy that a mod would be asking this, but I have been clean since Christmas, and want to stay that way, at least for awhile. Since I've been doing gear for 5 years, I have never given a thought to prohormones.

However, now they are my only choice. I would like to know what prohormones are best. Where can I go to research about them? What about M1T? Can I stack it with 1-AD, 4-ad, etc?

Please help fill me in.

Thanks,

AM

 

[andruw251]

Hey guys,

Crazy that a mod would be asking this, but I have been clean since Christmas, and want to stay that way, at least for awhile. Since I've been doing gear for 5 years, I have never given a thought to prohormones.

However, now they are my only choice. I would like to know what prohormones are best. Where can I go to research about them? What about M1T? Can I stack it with 1-AD, 4-ad, etc?

Please help fill me in.

Thanks,

AM

a good stack would be 1-test cypionate (obviously injectable) stacked with some 4ad. i would say 1ad, bc ive used it and ive liked it, but it converts to 1test, so your better off just using 1test cyp. you can buy the powder from www.designersupps.com, or they may even sell the already made liquid injectable. run a similar dosage to what you would normally run test cyp. 4ad to help your sex drive, transdermal or injectable is the best way to go, its not very orally active. i'd say use 400mg/day transdermally , i think 1fast400.com has some good transdermal 4ad products. run it for 10 weeks. if you want to throw in some orals, you can kickstart the cycle with some M1T, but m1,4diol would be a better option since m1t would just make the side effects from 1test cyp worse (m1t lethargy and suppression is very bad, suppression is as bad as tren and deca IMO). M2ohn, and "oxavar" would be good options for orals to end the cycle. of course, i dont know your reasons for wanting to get off of steroids (whether it be a legal issue or a health issue), but keep in mind that M1T and 1 test are actuall steroids, same risks and the same benefits, only they are legal for now. you can also find 4ad cyp if you want to inject it, but you'd have to use at least 1.5g per week which means a lot of injections. methylated PH's are just as hard on your liver as methylated steroids (granted some are more harsh than others, most believe that m1t is particularly harsh)

 

[andruw251]

MODS ARE REQUIRED TO USE GEAR ALL YEAR ROUND..


j/k bro.....I would like to know the answer as well...my body cant take as many cycles per year as i used to being im over 30 now....so, i was also looking into some prohormes to use for off-cycle periods...

bad idea to use ph's during off cycles. the point of taking time off is so your body will recover, so your test, LH etc. can get back to normal and to give your liver a break if you were using 17aa gear...methylated PH's would prevent your from giving your liver a break, and any PH/legal steroid, methylated or not will shut down your test production just as bad as illegal steroids

 

[tHe_ShOcKeR]

M1T and 1 test are the same thing, only one has the whole "methyl attachment" thing, the same as some oral steroids. however, these do not have the "same risks and same benefits" as illegals steroids. 1-test does not aromatize into estrogen, so gyno and such are not possible. for some reason, though, some guys have complained of water bloat, but i don't really know what the mechanism is behind it. im not 100% sure, but i think 1-test still shuts you down, so some sort of PCT is recommended, especially after longer cycles. just as with any methylated compound, definitely run some sort of milk thistle or your preferred liver supplement. since the M1T does make you lethargic, some guys stack it with 4AD to help, but that one, as far as i know, does aromatize, so take necessary precautions. as far as oxavar and such goes, i've heard of them, but haven't really looked into them. worth a look, though. they sound interesting.

when it comes to prohormones, there is still a debate as to whether they get you the same gains as the "real thing". however, the debate is stemmed from teenagers in high school who have shitty diets and shitty training running around screaming that the shit is useless. i firmly believe that supplements like M1T are capable of awesome results only if backed by an intelligent diet and exercise regimen.

 

[AnimalMass]

Andrew,

I appreciate the help so far. I got off gear for moral/legal reasons. My wife is having a baby and I'm finally going to be a daddy, and I was sick of the lying and everything else associated with the steroid use.

So injecting is out. I've injected myself nearly everyday for 5 years. I'd rather just take legal oral/ transdermal supplements.

What do you think of a M1T, 4-AD combo? I'm looking for added strength moreso than anything as I am a competitive powerlifter.

Also, I have made tons of gear in my day. How does making oral prohormones differ from making anadrol or dbol? Can I buy the powder for these supplements? And then I assume i can make a solution with the powder and alcohal right?

AM

 

[N2_MUSCLE]

Hey guys,

Crazy that a mod would be asking this, but I have been clean since Christmas, and want to stay that way, at least for awhile. Since I've been doing gear for 5 years, I have never given a thought to prohormones.

However, now they are my only choice. I would like to know what prohormones are best. Where can I go to research about them? What about M1T? Can I stack it with 1-AD, 4-ad, etc?

Please help fill me in.

Thanks,

AM

I was in the same boat as you. I had done a ton of cycles in the past and had not done one in over 4 years. A buddy who owns a gym told me to try M1T. At first I thought that maybe he was just trying to make a sale. but he had tried it and got good results from it. So I tried it. Let me tell you that is the shit! I lost body fat and gained muscle at the same time. I know this because my weight stayed the same for the first 3 weeks, but I gained size and my strengh went through the roof. I gained 85 lbs. on my bench alone! All my lifts went up dramatically. I only used 20mg. for 32 days. The only side effects I got off of it was it made my blood pressure go up a little and it made me pretty lathargic if I sat around to much. I would say the results are the same as a very light cycle. I have read that to combat the lathargy, take 4-ad with it at 600 mg. a day. It's not recommended to stack two methyls together because of the liver toxicity.
I learned alot on the 1fast 400 forums and the advant labs forum also. I think bulk nutrition does sell the powders to make your own.Hope this helps.

 

[Edicut]

I don't have alot of info to offer but after reading some posts on M1T on VIPBB, and Ghostgym, I decided to run it as an oral over Dbol on the cycle I'm starting next week. I started taking 15mgs(5mgs 3xday) on Wednesday and I'll run this for 4 weeks. This is my first time taking it and I'll be adding Test Prop and NPP on Monday for 6-8 weeks.

I don't know how long it's supposed to take to kick in and I say this with a bit of hesitation but I think it's already working. My workout Friday gave me an exceptionally large pump and even today my muscles feel hard as a rock and still seem as swollen as when I left the gym yesterday. It's definately not my imagination and I'm not taking anything else atm, and since I really don't know what to expect I'm not sure it would or could be a placebo effect..
From what I've read, it of course is methylated and is supposed to be somewhat liver toxic similar to other AAS orals, and proper precautions should be followed. Dosages I read about ranged from 10mgs-50mgs ED, but most said good effects could be had in the 15-20mg range. Common side effects noted were a lethargic feeling throughout the day, raise in blood pressure, some said loss of appetite and it's supposed to shut you down pretty hard requiring PCT to be run.

Hope this is of some use, and I'll check back on this thread in a week or so to post what it's doing for me, that should still be a bit too soon for the real stuff to be at active levels.

I just saw your questions about making it from raw powder. Personally I wouldn't waste the time. You can pick up a bottle of 60 5mgers for as little as $15.00 including S&H. If 20mgs or there abouts works for you that's not alot of green going down the gullet..BTW Crazedlifter supposedly has some that alot of guys were raving about, I think Dude2003 is helping him retail the product, might check with them..

Edicut

 

[N2_MUSCLE]

I don't have alot of info to offer but after reading some posts on M1T on VIPBB, and Ghostgym, I decided to run it as an oral over Dbol on the cycle I'm starting next week. I started taking 15mgs(5mgs 3xday) on Wednesday and I'll run this for 4 weeks. This is my first time taking it and I'll be adding Test Prop and NPP on Monday for 6-8 weeks.

I don't know how long it's supposed to take to kick in and I say this with a bit of hesitation but I think it's already working. My workout Friday gave me an exceptionally large pump and even today my muscles feel hard as a rock and still seem as swollen as when I left the gym yesterday. It's definately not my imagination and I'm not taking anything else atm, and since I really don't know what to expect I'm not sure it would or could be a placebo effect..
From what I've read, it of course is methylated and is supposed to be somewhat liver toxic similar to other AAS orals, and proper precautions should be followed. Dosages I read about ranged from 10mgs-50mgs ED, but most said good effects could be had in the 15-20mg range. Common side effects noted were a lethargic feeling throughout the day, raise in blood pressure, some said loss of appetite and it's supposed to shut you down pretty hard requiring PCT to be run.

Hope this is of some use, and I'll check back on this thread in a week or so to post what it's doing for me, that should still be a bit too soon for the real stuff to be at active levels.

Edicut

It's not your imagination........it's the M1T working!

 

[andruw251]

M1T and 1 test are the same thing, only one has the whole "methyl attachment" thing, the same as some oral steroids. however, these do not have the "same risks and same benefits" as illegals steroids. 1-test does not aromatize into estrogen, so gyno and such are not possible. for some reason, though, some guys have complained of water bloat, but i don't really know what the mechanism is behind it. im not 100% sure, but i think 1-test still shuts you down, so some sort of PCT is recommended, especially after longer cycles. just as with any methylated compound, definitely run some sort of milk thistle or your preferred liver supplement. since the M1T does make you lethargic, some guys stack it with 4AD to help, but that one, as far as i know, does aromatize, so take necessary precautions. as far as oxavar and such goes, i've heard of them, but haven't really looked into them. worth a look, though. they sound interesting.

when it comes to prohormones, there is still a debate as to whether they get you the same gains as the "real thing". however, the debate is stemmed from teenagers in high school who have shitty diets and shitty training running around screaming that the shit is useless. i firmly believe that supplements like M1T are capable of awesome results only if backed by an intelligent diet and exercise regimen.

im sorry my friend, but you cant argue with science. m1t and 1test are actuall steroids, no conversion required. not all steroids aromatize (look at halo, winny, var, FINA, masteron to mention a few), and yes gyno is possible because test is supressed. and if you knew anything about steroids, you wouldnt suggest that m1t and 1test are the same thing other than the "methyl attachment" because the same is true with equipoise and dbol, however they have completely different effects. yes 1test and m1t do come with the same risks and benefits as illegal steroids, no you dont get anadrol gains and anadrol sides, but the sides of some (m1t) are much worse than the sides of some illegal steroids (EQ, Var, primo, deca, even test). having used both, i would compare the effects of 20mg ed m1t to 30-40mg ed dbol (only without as much bloat as dbol), the side effects and test supression are worse with m1t. i would compare 1test's effects to a cross between eq/winny/fina, the mass gains are a little better than EQ, strenght gains a little less than winny, and side effects and leaning effects are very similar to fina. keep in mind that i have used all of these compounds. i used 1test cyp at 400mg/wk, eq at 400mg/wk, fina at 100mg EOD, and winny at 50mg ED (orally)

 

[andruw251]

Andrew,

I appreciate the help so far. I got off gear for moral/legal reasons. My wife is having a baby and I'm finally going to be a daddy, and I was sick of the lying and everything else associated with the steroid use.

So injecting is out. I've injected myself nearly everyday for 5 years. I'd rather just take legal oral/ transdermal supplements.

What do you think of a M1T, 4-AD combo? I'm looking for added strength moreso than anything as I am a competitive powerlifter.

Also, I have made tons of gear in my day. How does making oral prohormones differ from making anadrol or dbol? Can I buy the powder for these supplements? And then I assume i can make a solution with the powder and alcohal right?

AM

m1t/4ad combo would be ok. i'd actually go with transdermal 4ad/1test and kick the cylce off with m1t for about 2-3 weeks, and end the cycle with methyl 5-AA (great for strenth, not for size) which is a precursor to methyl-DHT, its almost like a winny with less size gains and nearly the same strengh gains....its hard to say the dosages that you would require bc i dont know your stats, i'd imagine pretty high since youve been using gear for 5 years. especially with the 4ad (which imo doesnt do much for strength and size, its mainly there to keep the sex drive up). as for making the gear, if your using methylated powders (m1t, m5aa, oxavar, m1,4diol and such) then it is exactly the same as making drol or dbol, i actually make 20mg m1t capsules for myself, they work great. www.designersupps.com carries some of the powders (m1t and m1,4add), there are actually directions on the website on how to make solutions from the powders. if you know how to make transdermal formulas, then you can get 100g of 4ad powder from www.kilosports.com for $90, research some on BB.com forums on how to make transdermals, i remember seeing a pretty good formula for a transdermal solution, i think it involved PEG, DMSO, some type of alchohol and a few other things, it may be worth it for you since you will likely have to use high dosages and buying it readymade would be rather expensive. for the 1 test, i would definitely use it transdermally bc it is not very orally active, unless you want to use 1ad (which converts to 1test) instead (1ad is orally active). you can get straight 1test powder for $4 per gram from 1fast400.com, that would be your best and most cost effective option. if you choose to go the 1ad route instead, LMK, i may be able to get you a deal on 1ad

 

[Edicut]

im sorry my friend, but you cant argue with science. m1t and 1test are actuall steroids, no conversion required. not all steroids aromatize (look at halo, winny, var, FINA, masteron to mention a few), and yes gyno is possible because test is supressed. and if you knew anything about steroids, you wouldnt suggest that m1t and 1test are the same thing other than the "methyl attachment" because the same is true with equipoise and dbol, however they have completely different effects. yes 1test and m1t do come with the same risks and benefits as illegal steroids, no you dont get anadrol gains and anadrol sides, but the sides of some (m1t) are much worse than the sides of some illegal steroids (EQ, Var, primo, deca, even test). having used both, i would compare the effects of 20mg ed m1t to 30-40mg ed dbol (only without as much bloat as dbol), the side effects and test supression are worse with m1t. i would compare 1test's effects to a cross between eq/winny/fina, the mass gains are a little better than EQ, strenght gains a little less than winny, and side effects and leaning effects are very similar to fina. keep in mind that i have used all of these compounds. i used 1test cyp at 400mg/wk, eq at 400mg/wk, fina at 100mg EOD, and winny at 50mg ED (orally)

You sorta lost me with the "not all steroids aromatize--------------and gyno is a possible because test is supressed".

Are you suggesting that suppressing Test is all that is needed to cause Gyno? Or did I miss something.

Edicut

 

[andruw251]

You sorta lost me with the "not all steroids aromatize--------------and gyno is a possible because test is supressed".

Are you suggesting that suppressing Test is all that is needed to cause Gyno? Or did I miss something.

Edicut

estrogen related gyno can occur from steroids (like test, dbol) aromatizing into estrogen. it can also occur post cycle when your testosterone levels are supressed and your estrogen levels are elevated. if your E to T+DHT ratio favors the "E" side, then gyno is a possibility even if you only used non aromatizing steroids, its somewhat rare, but it does happen. also, most PH's and legal steroids do aromatize (m1t, 1 test, m5aa are exceptions)

 

[buck]

Anabolicminds has some good info on transdermals

 

[AnimalMass]

wow

Wow guys,

I'm so impressed by the help I've received so far. Andrew and others, could you please help explain each of the different prohormones we've discussed here - the chemistry behind them, the typical positives from each (whether it be strength gains, size, bloat, water loss, hardening, joint health, etc.), as well as the negatives (lethargy, estrogenic or progestrinic gyno, natural test shutdown, etc.

From what I understand so far then...
1) 1 test and 1ad are very similar, with 1 test requiring no conversion, but it does not uptake orally. 1ad converts to 1-test, and is orally available? Is this correct? So then theoretically 1-test is the better choice, because no conversion is needed?

2) M1T is basically 1-test with the methyl attachment, which seems to make it comperable to Dbol. Right?

3) 4AD doesn't do much for size or strength but is good to keep sex drive up.

4) What is Methyl-5AA?

Also, I'm interested in the half-lives of these substances. It's very helpful to know to gauge amount for usage and how long you need to be off before starting up again.

Thanks!

AM

PS - ANDREW, IF THIS THREAD CONTINUES TO BE THIS HELPFUL, AND WE ADD THE NEEDED INFO, I'LL MAKE IT A STICKY SO THAT EVERYONE CAN LEARN.

 

[Adogg4]

bro in addition to the 1 test, 4-ad products, I have got some good results off of the 19-nordiols. they will convert into deca. Also a few prohormones like finigenx or trenobol have Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione which converts to trenbolone. Havent used that one yet so I would hesitate to make a recommendation.

One prohormone that kicked ass for me was mag10, it combines 4-ad with 1 test, a good stack if I do say so myself

I think a badass stack would be:

600mg/ED of 4-ad, weeks 1-10
600mg/ED 19nordiol/ED, weeks 1-10
depending on the product u use, somewhere between 200 and 600mg/ED 1-test, weeks 1-10
and to kickstart the cycle, either 3mg/ED methyl-Dienolone(supposed to work like a cross between low dose winny and low dose tren), or 20-30mg/ED m-1-t
6-oxo is good for anti-E, run it if your nips start to hurt from the 4ad, which they may, and definitely run 6-oxo post cycle, along with 2grams/ED tribulus

I would recommened that u get some clomid and even some HCG for pct, but if you dont want to, 6-oxo and tribulus should be enough

 

[supwiz]

prohormones

Hey Animalmass, Have you considered getting a prescription for real steroids? I would guess(could be wrong) if you've done heavy gear for 5 years your tes levels are low(heck mine became permanantly low after only a couple of years use and took over 2 years to get back to low normal) I decided I felt a whole lot better on some trt and started working with a MD that was into hormone therapy. He prescribes tes cyp(200mg per week) HGH(1-2 iu's ed) HCG (1,500 twice a week) arimidex(1mg ed) He also has written a scrip for andriol(I like when I get tired of poking myself), and I don't know for sure but he's been open to everything we have discussed and he liked the book I gave him on the medical uses of anabolic steroids and what it said about the positives of decca on joint health-maybe that's next. These MD's like that we know what we are talking about(I'm in medical nutritional sales) and you've always impressed me with your knowledge. They don't care where you get the product-so I just order it from a trusted source and save a bundle. It's legal, moral, and if you use it sensible, it's healthy. I've tried the prohormones too-it shuts you down as bad and doesn't work as well as the real deal. Plus, they are only going to be legal for a short while with the frenzy the politicians are in. Food for thought, Greg B.

 

[andruw251]

Wow guys,

I'm so impressed by the help I've received so far. Andrew and others, could you please help explain each of the different prohormones we've discussed here - the chemistry behind them, the typical positives from each (whether it be strength gains, size, bloat, water loss, hardening, joint health, etc.), as well as the negatives (lethargy, estrogenic or progestrinic gyno, natural test shutdown, etc.

From what I understand so far then...
1) 1 test and 1ad are very similar, with 1 test requiring no conversion, but it does not uptake orally. 1ad converts to 1-test, and is orally available? Is this correct? So then theoretically 1-test is the better choice, because no conversion is needed?

2) M1T is basically 1-test with the methyl attachment, which seems to make it comperable to Dbol. Right?

3) 4AD doesn't do much for size or strength but is good to keep sex drive up.

4) What is Methyl-5AA?

Also, I'm interested in the half-lives of these substances. It's very helpful to know to gauge amount for usage and how long you need to be off before starting up again.

Thanks!

AM

PS - ANDREW, IF THIS THREAD CONTINUES TO BE THIS HELPFUL, AND WE ADD THE NEEDED INFO, I'LL MAKE IT A STICKY SO THAT EVERYONE CAN LEARN.

1. 1ad actually converts to 1-test via an enzymatic route in the liver. 1ad is orally availiable, 1 test is not very orally availiable. transdermal or injectable 1test is the best route imo. if you want to go the oral route, then use 1ad.
2. m1t is 17aa 1-testosterone. IMO, it is comparable to Dbol with less bloat, and more other side effects.
3. 4ad converts to testosterone.....but it only has about a 10% conversion rate. from my experience, it is best used to keep sex drive up, and works well for that.....to actually add lasting mass and strength rather than just bloat, you would likely have to use extremely high dosages. 4ad is not very orallly availiable, at least 1g daily is recommended if taken oraly, at least 500mg when taken transdermally.
4. 5aa is a precursor to DHT, a very anabolic hormone, thats deactivated in skeletal muscle tissue....but its still very usefull for strength and hardness. methyl5aa converts to methyl DHT. i'd compare it to winny with less size gains, but nearly equal strenght gains.

others that may be usefull
19norandrostenediol-converts to nandrolone. 1g+ orally and 500mg+ transdermally is what i would use
1,4androstenediol-converts to boldenone. this is more orally active than just about any other nonmethylated PH other than 1ad.. 600mg+ would be a good dosage orally, no need to take it transdermally

also, for these two ph's and for 4ad, it is better to use the "diol" versions rather than the "dione" versions....dione's have some estrogen conversion, where any diol has to convert to its target hormone b4 any aromatization occurs

 

[andruw251]

bro in addition to the 1 test, 4-ad products, I have got some good results off of the 19-nordiols. they will convert into deca. Also a few prohormones like finigenx or trenobol have Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione which converts to trenbolone. Havent used that one yet so I would hesitate to make a recommendation.

actually 19nordiol converts to nandralone. deca has the decanoate ester attached making it much slower acting...VPX tried to market finagenx as a precursor to tren, but it actually isn't and the feedback on these products has been mixed

 

[andruw251]

6-oxo is good for anti-E, run it if your nips start to hurt from the 4ad, which they may, and definitely run 6-oxo post cycle, along with 2grams/ED tribulus

I would recommened that u get some clomid and even some HCG for pct, but if you dont want to, 6-oxo and tribulus should be enough

i would definitely use nolva instead of 6oxo.....nolva is proven, there has been studies done on it, and it is no doubt better than 6oxo, not to mention cheaper.....everyone on this board should have acces to nolva at a good price, if not, check out medsmex.com. i have used tribulus with no results, it has been shown to increase LH output in older people who's LH is at very low levels, but thats about it