Literature or videos expounding on the differences of taking methylated or 17a oral steroids orally VS injecting them? Liver toxicity differences?

[bighunanballs]

Can anyone refer or link any vids/articles/literature on the differences (pharmacokinetics & toxicity) between taking usually oral compounds and injecting them. Seems to be a school of thought that they are less liver toxic when brewed up as Injectables, however I always assumed even when injected your liver still sees the same load on "2nd pass" metabolism.

Derek mpmd did a video describing sdrol and it's far more potent orally VS injecting (he theorized orally creates different metabolites then injecting it) but doesn't go into the toxicity differences.

Do you actually save yourself any liver or organ stress by bypassing 1st pass liver breakdown of oral steroids?

 

[bighunanballs]

View: https://youtu.be/7MGquMdLAUQ?si=M4u1RrlTLnpZaKmv

 

[readalot]

however I always assumed even when injected your liver still sees the same load on "2nd pass" metabolism.

Absolutely. Great job.

R

Post in thread 'What orals affect the liver the least?'

Dec 31, 2023

All 17aa AAS are metabolized by the liver (yes some research suggests oxandrolone metabolized by kidney). Hence you will notice elevation in LFTs with 17aa AAS. Extent of damage is a function of AUC (area under curve) for chronic dosing.

Injecting 17aa AAS IM and or administering them buccally may offer a slight advantage via dilution (not sending the 17 aa AAS exclusively through the portal vein on first pass).

Portal vein - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This is probably a negligible advantage based on total blood flow to the liver vs that fed from portal.

• readalot

• 

No difference seen on my LFTs/lipids whether I take oxandrolone via oral capsule or buccal administration straight into bloodstream.

 

[bighunanballs]

Absolutely. Great job.

R

Post in thread 'What orals affect the liver the least?'

Dec 31, 2023

All 17aa AAS are metabolized by the liver (yes some research suggests oxandrolone metabolized by kidney). Hence you will notice elevation in LFTs with 17aa AAS. Extent of damage is a function of AUC (area under curve) for chronic dosing.

Injecting 17aa AAS IM and or administering them buccally may offer a slight advantage via dilution (not sending the 17 aa AAS exclusively through the portal vein on first pass).

Portal vein - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This is probably a negligible advantage based on total blood flow to the liver vs that fed from portal.

• readalot

• 

No difference seen on my LFTs/lipids whether I take oxandrolone via oral capsule or buccal administration straight into bloodstream.

I'd love to try to find more information like this. Whether anecdotal or not. I'm surprised more ppl aren't Homebrewing more injectible versions of orals if they are indeed less hepatoxic. I've never tried a back to back experiment on myself with oral vs inj anadrol.and.pulling bloods on both. Might be something I need to try. I noticed many years ago when I made a batch of injectable adrol that it didn't crush my diet like oral did.

 

[readalot]

I'd love to try to find more information like this. Whether anecdotal or not. I'm surprised more ppl aren't Homebrewing more injectible versions of orals if they are indeed less hepatoxic. I've never tried a back to back experiment on myself with oral vs inj anadrol.and.pulling bloods on both. Might be something I need to try. I noticed many years ago when I made a batch of injectable adrol that it didn't crush my diet like oral did.

I don't think they really are.

Here's my experiments with capsules vs buccal troche.

Oxandrolone Troche Experience: Potential Atherosclerosis Marker WMD

I’d be interested in hearing others experience using oxandrolone troches instead of oral delivery (capsules) to bypass first-pass metabolism and reduce liver toxicity and lower minimum effective dose . Since oxandrolone has excellent oral bioavailability (97-98%) and is actually metabolized...

t-nation.com

Sorry for the member firewall (email signup).

 

[UncleBuns]

I don't have scientific evidence but I can't imagine there's much difference. With injection you skip first pass but compound enters your blood. Blood goes through your liver constantly as well as any other organ that would be negatively effected. Orals were designed to be taken orally. If someone doesn't like the side effect profile best thing to do is just not take them and choose something that was designed as an injectable. I never understood why people bother injecting an oral drug.

 

[bighunanballs]

As far as I know these hormone still have to be cleaved and broken down into metabolites to work. Where does that break down take place in your bloodstream? Does it all still have to pass through the liver to be broken down or does it break down in the bloodstream while circulating.

 

[narta]

What I personally found out is that inj orals don't mess with my appetite. Liver values are the same give or take and have the same results for the same dosages. Only outlier is sdrol it needs roughly half the dosage for the same outcome.

Drawbacks is obviously injecting and in the case of Winny, the difficulty to inject it vs just swallowing it