Long and short esters- planning bulk cycle

[Inquiring Mind]

Hello my brothers, and sisters of course;

Come September I plan on starting my bulk cycle and will be doing a progressive overload DC program. It will be my 5th cycle. All previous cycles have been 8 week short cycles. Except for Test Cyp, the other compounds used (NPP and Mast) were propionate. I have used Bbol and Var in the past but this time I'll probably skip on the orals.

So, this time around, I want to try 12--16 week bulk cycle. The EOD pins with short esters gets old quick at this point, and so my question is, how do I incorporate the two?

Meaning that, if I start with NPP and Mast P (of course with test base), for the the first few weeks, I assume I also can take the Deca and Mast E at same time for like 4 weeks, till they kick in, and then I can drop the Propionates? This is my first assumption. Is this how you guys do it?

2nd assumption or option for that matter would be that I can start pinning Deca and Mast E now as I have 2 weeks till Sept and if I go this route I can postpone my start date to mid-September.

Which would be better route to take?

Please feel free to offer your input, it will be greatly appreciated. I know there are a bunch of info I left out, I figure I can address them as they become relevant.

A gain, I thank you all in advance. Please thank the time to help your fellow lifter out.
Peace y'all.

 

[DonQKong]

So, this time around, I want to try 12--16 week bulk cycle. The EOD pins with short esters gets old quick at this point, and so my question is, how do I incorporate the two?

Meaning that, if I start with NPP and Mast P (of course with test base), for the the first few weeks, I assume I also can take the Deca and Mast E at same time for like 4 weeks, till they kick in, and then I can drop the Propionates? This is my first assumption. Is this how you guys do it?

A few cycles ago, I played around with short esters combined with long esters to start with, with the theory that as the long esters started kicking in, I would drop the short esters gradually.

Guess what, my spreadsheet and calculations of half time and effective time and all that did not quite work out in real life. And the reason for that is that there are so many variables here that its impossible to get nailed down to the tee: Your body shutting down, how well your receptors respond, how well your body compounds and utilises the various esters, its a labyrinth of "what ifs and what if nots".

When you take a long ester over weeks, it releases and compounds and you get an effect. When you add a short ester to that, it releases quicker, it compounds together with the long ester, and guess what, you get a compound effect from them both.

My conclusion was to stick with my poison and I run short esters now consistently with the exception of when I need low test as a base, and I kickstart with orals, who have halflife close to none.

That's my two cents.

DQ

 

[Inquiring Mind]

When you take a long ester over weeks, it releases and compounds and you get an effect. When you add a short ester to that, it releases quicker, it compounds together with the long ester, and guess what, you get a compound effect from them both.
DQ

Hey DQ, thanks for your input..so from what I understand, combining the two anyway just for the benefits of the combined affect might be the way to go..Reminds me of compounds like Sustanon, which has like 4 different esters if I'm not mistaken. Maybe I'm reaching...LOL.

Nevertheless, thanks for the food for thought, will be looking further into this.

IM

 

[Inquiring Mind]

So there hasn't been any activity on this thread of mine, maybe the title wasn't very appealing or maybe I wasn't specific enough with the title to get brothers/sisters to take a look.

I'll try to give it life again, and hope y'all all jump in and offer insight.

So back in the middle of August, I decided to start with Deca and Mast E to build up in anticipation of starting my 16 week workout program; keeping Test at 200mg and will keep it at that through out the cycle.

However, I will reveal that at the same time I was/am also injecting the NPP and Mast P, mainly so that I could start seeing some more immediate results from the same but shorter acting compounds until the long esters kick in, which by then would have been 4 weeks of pre-loading.

During this "pre-load" time, as I'm calling it, I'm working out 5x a day, but I'm doing volume and In no way near "heavy" weights. Basically maintaining from the previous cycle and giving the joints a chance to recoup.

With all that said, my cycle will be like this:
200 Test E/week.
250 Deca/week.
400 Mast E/week.

As an aside note. I have some EQ coming in..does anyone see any point for it's inclusion with lean mass as an objective?

Thanks in advance.

IM

 

[jJjburton]

So there hasn't been any activity on this thread of mine, maybe the title wasn't very appealing or maybe I wasn't specific enough with the title to get brothers/sisters to take a look.

I'll try to give it life again, and hope y'all all jump in and offer insight.

So back in the middle of August, I decided to start with Deca and Mast E to build up in anticipation of starting my 16 week workout program; keeping Test at 200mg and will keep it at that through out the cycle.

However, I will reveal that at the same time I was/am also injecting the NPP and Mast P, mainly so that I could start seeing some more immediate results from the same but shorter acting compounds until the long esters kick in, which by then would have been 4 weeks of pre-loading.

During this "pre-load" time, as I'm calling it, I'm working out 5x a day, but I'm doing volume and In no way near "heavy" weights. Basically maintaining from the previous cycle and giving the joints a chance to recoup.

With all that said, my cycle will be like this:
200 Test E/week.
250 Deca/week.
400 Mast E/week.

As an aside note. I have some EQ coming in..does anyone see any point for it's inclusion with lean mass as an objective?

Thanks in advance.

IM

Yes I would add the EQ in maybe 400-600 mg per week would be nice. I think adding EQ would make this cycle amazing. Since you are running low but solid doses. EQ deca and mast sound real good.

 

[Inquiring Mind]

Yes I would add the EQ in maybe 400-600 mg per week would be nice. I think adding EQ would make this cycle amazing. Since you are running low but solid doses. EQ deca and mast sound real good.

Bro, thanks for taking the time to respond.
I read one of Bill Roberts articles in which he say, and I'm paraphrasing, that one needs to front load th EQ initially a certain amount...I'll go back and figure the math out, I think it was like double what you anticipated running through the cycle.

With that said, it had me wondering, since Test aromatize, and Deca also, as does EQ, its concerns me the implications. I don't know by how much percent wise Test converts. They said Deca is like 20% and EQ is like 50%. That sounds like it could add up to a lot of estrogen.

I have AI on hand, but hope not to have to use it. Hopefully the Mast will help some.

 

[jJjburton]

Bro, thanks for taking the time to respond.
I read one of Bill Roberts articles in which he say, and I'm paraphrasing, that one needs to front load th EQ initially a certain amount...I'll go back and figure the math out, I think it was like double what you anticipated running through the cycle.

With that said, it had me wondering, since Test aromatize, and Deca also, as does EQ, its concerns me the implications. I don't know by how much percent wise Test converts. They said Deca is like 20% and EQ is like 50%. That sounds like it could add up to a lot of estrogen.

I have AI on hand, but hope not to have to use it. Hopefully the Mast will help some.

no need to front load EQ. I think it wastes gear.