Low Dose Lantus 3x Week with GH / Questions

[callisto]

I want to try to incorporate insulin.
It will be my first time using it.

protocol I thought of was:

lantus 10-20iu 3x per week
hgh 10iu on the lantus days and 6 iu on the other 4.
test e 200mg/week
eq 400mg/week

use of lantus will be primarily to raise igf1. secondly also to get blood sugar a little lower. i was on trt (15mg ed/105 per week) + 2iu hgh ed for the last 3 months.
fasting bg is 80-85.
my question now is, is it safe to take the lantus in the evening with my gh, as i like taking the gh in the evening more.

will my insulin resistance suffer by using this protocol?

would higher fat make any problems with the insulin or does high fat plus exogenous insulin not cause excess fat deposition?
read this on some forum, but not sure.

I usually like to have a little more fat in my diet, around 100g, but i dont know if this works with the lantus.

thanks for any input in advance

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Lantus is dosed in the PM by most diabetics. Should be ok if you start slow and stay safe with it.

10iu of GH is a fuck ton and a total waste in a single dose.

 

[callisto]

Lantus is dosed in the PM by most diabetics. Should be ok if you start slow and stay safe with it.

10iu of GH is a fuck ton and a total waste in a single dose.

I felt good on 8iu of the same hgh. only side effect I really get is some water retention if i ramp up too fast. a little cts and raised rhr, but no high bp.
I dont know if my usual day structure allows splitting, but if possible, how would you split it?

I thought about fasting for a day and using 10 iu lantus in the morning to stimulate the blood sugar during the nights with lantus before actually taking it in the evening. does that make sense?

 

[Capodecapi]

Yes i do That too

 

[callisto]

@Mac11wildcat
How important is how many carbs I eat when I take the lantus? with fast acting slin you eat carbs right after to offset hypo but with lantus could I go with a lower carb approach, maybe do higher carb days on the lantus days and lower ones on the regular days? would up the fat on the regular days and lower it on the lantus days.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

@Mac11wildcat
How important is how many carbs I eat when I take the lantus? with fast acting slin you eat carbs right after to offset hypo but with lantus could I go with a lower carb approach, maybe do higher carb days on the lantus days and lower ones on the regular days? would up the fat on the regular days and lower it on the lantus days.

If you're eating relatively the same and not jamming in food to be able to use slin the fat thing has never been an issue for me.

As for going hypo. Very hard on Lantus but I don't dose at night. Start slow. Consider what lantus is; X units over 18-24 hours. That's ~1 iu per hr over a day at 20iu.

 

[petefox]

Lantus and Levemir don't have an on-set effect like rapid or fast/slow acting insulins do.

I'd run Humalog pre-w/o with a whey isolate/dextrose shake or as my daily Levemir first thing in the morning. I'd also suggest getting either a glucose monitor or a CGM like the Libre 2 to keep track of glucose levels.

I'm type-2 diabetic so I deal with this daily.

 

[callisto]

If you're eating relatively the same and not jamming in food to be able to use slin the fat thing has never been an issue for me.

As for going hypo. Very hard on Lantus but I don't dose at night. Start slow. Consider what lantus is; X units over 18-24 hours. That's ~1 iu per hr over a day at 20iu.

so the amount of lantus will release over 18-24 hours? thats good to know.

I will do a fast for a day to try and try to replicate the glucose levels at night.
ill take the lantus in the morning during the fast and see if my bg drops too low. will obv have sugar on my in case of hypo even if there is very low chance

then ill adjust if needed.

does that make sense?

is low carb an option on 10-20iu of lantus or no?

 

[petefox]

so the amount of lantus will release over 18-24 hours? thats good to know.

I will do a fast for a day to try and try to replicate the glucose levels at night.
ill take the lantus in the morning during the fast and see if my bg drops too low. will obv have sugar on my in case of hypo even if there is very low chance

then ill adjust if needed.

does that make sense?

That would be a good idea, also start low and taper up over a couple days (4iu day one, maybe add 1IU per day and stop when comfortable).

I tend to go with 8iu Levemir in the morning, I get lethargic with anything over that.

 

[callisto]

That would be a good idea, also start low and taper up over a couple days (4iu day one, maybe add 1IU per day and stop when comfortable).

I tend to go with 8iu Levemir in the morning, I get lethargic with anything over that.

thanks, ill look out for the lethargy.
do you have any tips for carbs? as i was asking, would low carb be possible with 10-20iu lantus?

 

[Evom1]

I really do not think you need that much gh... This forum has some weird thing about mega dosing gh. 4-6iu would be plenty unless maybe you're an absolute monster

 

[Evom1]

as i was asking, would low carb be possible with 10-20iu lantus?

Why do you think Lantus would be needed if carbs were low?

 

[callisto]

Why do you think Lantus would be needed if carbs were low?

As i wrote in the title post, to drive IGF1 up.
I just feel better on low carbs. less lethargic, i have more energy.

I agree that 10iu is a high dose. I dont really get sides from high dose hgh.
At 8iu ed i get a little numbness in the hands in the morning, gone in 1 min. 5 rhr increase. No blood pressure increase. blood sugar increases, but not extremely much (from 80-85 to 90-95).
I monitor my heart anually, on high dose hgh bianually. (ecg).
I use Nebivolol, keep my BP between 120/80-110/70. The lantus will aid in keeping the blood glucose in more favourable ranges and drive IGF1 up a lot, which is exactly what i want.

 

[Evom1]

What is the reason for wanting igf up while on low carbs? Also there's a video by more plates more dates where he shows the increase in igf1 from increasing levels of Hgh and there seemed to be an upper limit according to the study he used if I remember correctly after 6iu the increase was negligible

Awesome to hear all those numbers are in check!

 

[Whopperflopper]

I'll chime in with the Lantus dose. I'm type 2, so I struggle with glucose control. 20 ius at night, along with 1000mg metformin x2daily has eliminated my need for after meal doses of regular insulin. This is on a maintenance diet.

 

[callisto]

I'll chime in with the Lantus dose. I'm type 2, so I struggle with glucose control. 20 ius at night, along with 1000mg metformin x2daily has eliminated my need for after meal doses of regular insulin. This is on a maintenance diet.

Thank you for the input.
May I ask, what is your fasting BG in the morning with this protocol, and what is your BG after a meal?

 

[callisto]

What is the reason for wanting igf up while on low carbs? Also there's a video by more plates more dates where he shows the increase in igf1 from increasing levels of Hgh and there seemed to be an upper limit according to the study he used if I remember correctly after 6iu the increase was negligible

Awesome to hear all those numbers are in check!

I watched the video today. The studys subjects were injected only once with different doses of gh (0.075iu/kg, 0.15iu/kg, 0.3iu/kg) and the IGF1 levels were monitored. The 0.3iu/kg group was continued to day six with one injection daily.
The IGF1 plateaued, but their Nutrition was not monitored, their Thyroid hormones werent monitored. They didnt determine if a lower dose would be able to reach the same IGF1 Levels.

Apparently there has been another study on high dose GH which has shown that insulin, caloric intake, physical activity, liver health and thyroid hormone levels has a significant impact on how high IGF1 will get on high dose hgh. I cant find it right now, if I will, ill post it here.

So basically by enhancing / optimizing the thyroid (t4 if required), insulin(the lantus) and nutrition(caloric surplus, clean diet), IGF1 should be able to go higher. Also, as the subjects average weight was around 70kg/154lbs they recieved 21iu of GH. Doing half of that 3 times a week with an optimized routine will probably have my IGF1 not plateau but rise to the point the 10iu will optimally raise it to.