Low test mid-high tren for harsh cut?

[FH93]

I'm currently cutting, taking 500mg test. I was thinking of dropping test down to 150mg, and taking 350-500mg tren to maintain and possibly build more muscle while on this cut. I'm doing quite a harsh cut at the moment (1-1.5% bw per week at about 15% bf) so I want to maximize muscle retention.

The reason those compounds specifically is because it's what I have on hand at the moment

 

[malfeasance]

Why?

Higher testosterone leads to better body composition. Studies have backed that up even without working out up to 600mg a week. The study did not go any higher, so there may be more benefit to running it even higher.

Keep the testosterone high.

500 mg of trenbolone is a bitch on your sleep and some other things. Sleep helps control cortisol and other things and helps you cut fat.

If you want to maximize your muscle retention, you need to slow down your weight loss (and up your testosterone! LOL!). Assuming you weigh 230 pounds (you did not say), you are cutting almost 4 pounds (3.45) a week? That is way too fast if you are past the first week or two. Up the protein and add some carbs back in. Slow it down a little. Pick a show a little further away if the competition date requires this fast cut. You'll look better if you slow down some.

As for test and tren, I would keep the testosterone high and hold off on the tren for several more weeks/months to harden up at the end of the cut. When you are lean enough to be gross (ew, yuck reactions), then add in the trenbolone, slowly, using lower doses that you can ramp up slowly as needed for the desired effect, while pulling testosterone lower and upping your AI to get rid of the water. If this last paragraph needs any further explanation, let me know. I basically have all the testosterone gone by show day. I know plenty of others do not do it this way, but it certainly works.

 

[hudson98]

pretty much what he said except im a fan of hard cutting. Once you get leaner start to drop the test down, add in tren, as muscle loss will be more easy once you get lean. Train hard low volume to retain muscle, some say up reps high volume, your diet and cardio drive fat loss not 20 rep sets vs 8-12

 

[malfeasance]

some say up reps high volume, your diet and cardio drive fat loss not 20 rep sets vs 8-12

100% true

BUT

Some guys, maybe most, grow muscle better on higher reps for leg training.

Muscular adaptations to combinations of high- and low-intensity resistance exercises - PubMed

Acute and long-term effects of resistance-training regimens with varied combinations of high- and low-intensity exercises were studied. Acute changes in the serum growth hormone (GH) concentration were initially measured after 3 types of regimens for knee extension exercise: a medium intensity...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Take a study from Japan that found that adding a set of high reps (25-35 reps) was best for boosting not only muscle size, but also muscle strength. The Japanese scientists had trained men do a leg workout twice a week for six weeks on a typical muscle mass gaining program that involved using moderate weight for 10-15 reps per set of leg presses and leg extensions.

After this 6-week training phase they separated the men into two groups: 1) a strength-training group, and 2) a mixed-training group.Both groups trained with a typical strength-training program that consisted of 5 sets of each exercise (leg press and leg extension) done with heavy weight for 3-5 reps per set with 3 minutes of rest allowed between sets for four weeks. The mixed-training group also performed one light-weight set of 25-30 reps done 30 seconds after the last set.

The researchers reported in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research that the group doing the 25-30 rep set not only continued to make gains in muscle mass, while the strength-training group actually had a slight loss in muscle mass, but they gained about 5% more strength than the strength-training group.

Although the scientists were unsure of the exact mechanism for the additional strength gains, it appears that the single set of higher reps provides an additional training stimulus that impacts strength gains. The higher growth hormone levels that comes with high rep training may have increased muscle size and strength gains."

Rep Range For Hypertrophy

The way you perform your reps can make a HUGE difference. Here's my breakdown on changes you can make to this crucial training variable.

www.jimstoppani.com

I know that is not comparing 20 reps for 8-12, but it's good to experiment a little, change things up, and see if new ways will work better. Experiment with reps, volume, different training programs. Give things a chance and see what works. It is doubtful that one thing works equally well for all persons, or that even one set thing works for one person as opposed to changing things up sometimes.

 

[hudson98]

def agree, I like to include a few rep ranges. Example tris 1 set of dips 20-30 rest paused, CG Bench 20-30 rest paused (so heavy, usually 11 or so on the first min-set. Then hit them with a high rep drop set isolation, something like cable to hit the long head, 15 reps, then 4 drops in weight.

Delts also respond best to higher reps IMO, side and rear.

Typically when cutting though and low calories, nothing scientific, but I like low volume in the 8-12 range to keep the strength. If someone is getting weaker on a diet, perhaps muscle loss. On all my hard cuts I always got stronger, even when I did that ridiculous Layne Norton PHAT routine, LOL.

Then when calories come back up, tier the volume up, addd some more high rep or drop sets after the heavy work for a muscle group.

 

[eery]

pretty much what he said except im a fan of hard cutting. Once you get leaner start to drop the test down, add in tren, as muscle loss will be more easy once you get lean. Train hard low volume to retain muscle, some say up reps high volume, your diet and cardio drive fat loss not 20 rep sets vs 8-12

you also are lower on glycogen so you dont really have much fuel to get through those higher rep ranges so it makes sense to not train with as high rep ranges. You also get more bang for your buck in terms of recruiting fast twitch muscle fibers earlier in the lower(1-8) rep ranges so higher reps doesnt make as much sense in a deficit imo. Dont exclude them if it works for your context though.

I think you'd be fine with 200-300 test and 100-200mg tren depending on how big the deficit is, what other drugs are in play and what other potential catabolism is going on. You dont really need much to maintain muscle in a deficit if your approach is decent.You can always up the dose.

 

[Maximus014]

I.tried the low test high tren thing and didn't like it, while I looked good,.I felt.like absolute shit, I was a.wreck.mentally, barely.slept, constant heartburn, always horny, but couldnnever cum, which probably.made.me.even more.moody

If set on tren I'd say try for 250-400 test with 100mg-200mg tren ace per week, more than enough to help, anavar wouldn't hurt as an addition either

 

[hudson98]

you also are lower on glycogen so you dont really have much fuel to get through those higher rep ranges so it makes sense to not train with as high rep ranges. You also get more bang for your buck in terms of recruiting fast twitch muscle fibers earlier in the lower(1-8) rep ranges so higher reps doesnt make as much sense in a deficit imo. Dont exclude them if it works for your context though.

I think you'd be fine with 200-300 test and 100-200mg tren depending on how big the deficit is, what other drugs are in play and what other potential catabolism is going on. You dont really need much to maintain muscle in a deficit if your approach is decent.You can always up the dose.

agree with this