Major PIP

[Dr JIM]

And for me most short esters will cause me injection problems, so I avoid them....

Once again it's not the solvent OIL per se but the solubility of the short chain esters that MAY be associated with a certain degree of PIP.

The latter occurs bc some labs increase the concentration of BA to enhance the solubility
of T-p and T-a.

Have you seen T-p or T-a sold at a concentration of greater than 100mg/ml, it's unlikely bc they will precipitate at much higher concentrations ------ and even at normative concentrations the
addition of "extra" BA expedites the dissolution process.

However the is NOT an issue with long chain esters such as; (Cypo, Ena, Dec etc) that readily solubilize at
comparatively high concentrations

 

[Witchdoctor]

Not claiming its the solvent or oil, its the short esters I am blaming. Or better yet its my body I should blame as its the one reacting negatively to the short esters.....

Once again it's not the solvent OIL per se but the solubility of the short chain esters that MAY be associated with a certain degree of PIP.

The latter occurs bc some labs increase the concentration of BA to enhance the solubility
of T-p and T-a.

Have you seen T-p or T-a sold at a concentration of greater than 100mg/ml, it's unlikely bc they will precipitate at much higher concentrations ------ and even at normative concentrations the
addition of "extra" BA expedites the dissolution process.

However the is NOT an issue with long chain esters such as; (Cypo, Ena, Dec etc) that readily solubilize at
comparatively high concentrations

 

[Morefyah]

Sounds like a bad brew.
It's not the short esters.
Properly brewed prop or ace doesn't give you pip. I've never gotten pip from using test e or npp. Sounds like it's either shit gear, pour injection technique. I have had bad pip from TNE and Tren base.
Which was probably a reaction to EO.

 

[GeorgeForemanRules]

Pain scale of 8/10 is horrific pain, that pain level would have had you call 911.

Please learn to rate pain levels responsibility.

 

[Dr JIM]

its the short esters I am blaming. ..

Yea then maybe this will help the PKa or substances ability to form an acid or base at a physiologic PH of 7.4 does NOT differ significantly bt short and long chain esters, used in the production of parenteral AAS, got it!

In addition tell me how an ester such as T-a or T-p both with a half life of 24 hours or less can create PAIN many days AFTER its dissociated from its parent compound, metabolized and excreted from the body.

Esters are NOT toxins and as such mediate the I inflammatory cascade once injected, but rather are a part of everyday foodstuffs called fatty acids, and is one reason everyone possesses the serum "ESTERASE" enzyme responsible for their degradation.

What you are "claiming" has been opined in the past as an explanation for PIP elsewhere and amounts to little more than non-evidence based bro-science bc the pharmacodynamics and physiology just dont follow IMO.

 

[TRT]

There you go Dr.! Now this is what I'm talking about. [emoji1] Informative. It's not falling on deaf ears.

 

[Demondosage]

Okay...that kinda pissed me off. I'm gonna keep a civil tongue on this one. Forgive us for not knowing something. That's like me calling you an idiot cause you can't use a plow or bulldozer just because it's something you've never done. When you sit there and talk to us like we're idiots it makes you not look so good to be honest. Why dont you try educating us instead of bashing us?

I think you've forgotten for a moment as to why you came here to begin with. Maybe it was to help someone? Why don't you try helping us understand what it is that's causing this pip. If it's a sterile issue or something along the lines of a health issue, then say it. Without putting so much ENTHUSIASM on key words.

Now, @Dr JIM what do you think, with your experience, is the problem and is there a solution?

You guys are just figuring this out now?? What does this guy ever have to offer to a thread? Hahahahah , he's an armchair theorist bullshit artist who likes to use fancy words and long replies that usually have nothing to do with the topic at hand. He talks down to everyone like he's on another level but he's really just an idiot

 

[TRT]

You guys are just figuring this out now?? What does this guy ever have to offer to a thread? Hahahahah , he's an armchair theorist bullshit artist who likes to use fancy words and long replies that usually have nothing to do with the topic at hand. He talks down to everyone like he's on another level but he's really just an idiot

Let's see when you joined... Now, let's see when I joined... Yup. Just now. But thank you for pointing that out cause now I can ignore him if his opinion hold no wright. Is he even a dr?

 

[Demondosage]

Let's see when you joined... Now, let's see when I joined... Yup. Just now. But thank you for pointing that out cause now I can ignore him if his opinion hold no wright. Is he even a dr?

I doubt it man, even if he is it means nothing to me

 

[Witchdoctor]

Its not a claim, its how my body responds to short esters, any short ester of any compound I have a similar reaction. Instead of going on and on about how MY body responds lets just end the conversation by agreeing that my body knows better than any scientific mumble jumble that your referencing. Not here to argue just to share what MY body does when I inject short esters. This has happened to me ever since I took my first inject back in the early 90's, doesnt matter if it was pharm grade or ugl, same result. We all are built differently, all respond differently....

Yea then maybe this will help the PKa or substances ability to form an acid or base at a physiologic PH of 7.4 does NOT differ significantly bt short and long chain esters, used in the production of parenteral AAS, got it!

In addition tell me how an ester such as T-a or T-p both with a half life of 24 hours or less can create PAIN many days AFTER its dissociated from its parent compound, metabolized and excreted from the body.

Esters are NOT toxins and as such mediate the I inflammatory cascade once injected, but rather are a part of everyday foodstuffs called fatty acids, and is one reason everyone possesses the serum "ESTERASE" enzyme responsible for their degradation.

What you are "claiming" has been opined in the past as an explanation for PIP elsewhere and amounts to little more than non-evidence based bro-science bc the pharmacodynamics and physiology just dont follow IMO.

 

[Dr JIM]

You guys are just figuring this out now?? What does this guy ever have to offer to a thread? Hahahahah , he's an armchair theorist bullshit artist who likes to use fancy words and long replies that usually have nothing to do with the topic at hand. He talks down to everyone like he's on another level but he's really just an idiot

Your forum and AAS sales must be at rock bottom AGAIN.

Can't wait to hear your bro science theory on PIP, lol!

 

[Dr JIM]

Its not a claim, its how my body responds to short esters, any short ester of any compound I have a similar reaction. Instead of going on and on about how MY body responds lets just end the conversation by agreeing that my body knows better than any scientific mumble jumble that your referencing. Not here to argue just to share what MY body does when I inject short esters. This has happened to me ever since I took my first inject back in the early 90's, doesnt matter if it was pharm grade or ugl, same result. We all are built differently, all respond differently....

Really and name one U.S. Pharmaceutical company that manufactures T-a or T-p to use for comparison.

Your comments are classic of those who refuse to learn relying instead on bro-science explanations they can "understand" such as "everyone is different" as a scapegoat.

So your "bodies" physiology and metabolic processes are different than everyone else's.

Dude we are not talking about hair or eye color, lol!

"Believe" what you like.

 

[Witchdoctor]

Really and name one U.S. Pharmaceutical company that manufactures T-a or T-p to use for comparison.

Your comments are classic of those who refuse to learn relying instead on bro-science explanations they can "understand" such as "everyone is different" as a scapegoat.

So your "bodies" physiology and metabolic processes are different than everyone else's.

Dude we are not talking about hair or eye color, lol!

"Believe" what you like.

Well it appears all u want to do is argue, I know my body better than u, but I sense u will disagree.....

 

[TRT]

If I shoot 1cc of test prop in a muscle, that muscle is now useless! But I could shoot a gram of test E in that same muscle and be fine. It'll just be a little sore. How do you explain that doc? Concentration? Crystals? If I could take Testosterone Propionate I would but i can't from all the swelling and pain it causes.

 

[puckhog]

Update...

Injected 1.5cc NPP into left quad after warming it up. The PIP is much more tolerable than the glute injection.

Possible reasons..... More bloodflow? Less sensitive area? Warmed oil? More use of muscle throughout the day? Just some thoughts.

 

[Roger rabbit]

Its not a claim, its how my body responds to short esters, any short ester of any compound I have a similar reaction. Instead of going on and on about how MY body responds lets just end the conversation by agreeing that my body knows better than any scientific mumble jumble that your referencing. Not here to argue just to share what MY body does when I inject short esters. This has happened to me ever since I took my first inject back in the early 90's, doesnt matter if it was pharm grade or ugl, same result. We all are built differently, all respond differently....

It's not the ester, it is more than likely the compound itself and your body isn't breaking the compound down fast enough, which can cause the pain, or the inflammatory issues. This can also cause a steril abcess.

So what @dr. Jim is saying is obviously correct, it's not the ester attached that is causing the pip, it's either bad technique ( which probably isn't the case) or your body struggles with breaking down the compound itself.

 

[Roger rabbit]

If I shoot 1cc of test prop in a muscle, that muscle is now useless! But I could shoot a gram of test E in that same muscle and be fine. It'll just be a little sore. How do you explain that doc? Concentration? Crystals? If I could take Testosterone Propionate I would but i can't from all the swelling and pain it causes.

Same as above [emoji115][emoji115]

 

[TRT]

Same as above [emoji115][emoji115]

Lol oops. My 4am fasted HIIT routine got my brain all messed up.

 

[Demondosage]

Your forum and AAS sales must be at rock bottom AGAIN.

Can't wait to hear your bro science theory on PIP, lol!

Don't sell gear, I make a living off selling knowledge

 

[Dr JIM]

Well then expound upon your "knowledge" of PIP, Mr "experience", and don't concern yourself with any scientific evidence bc that doesn't matter, for those insular Meso members who prefer to live on an island, lol!