Hey all new here. Im on hrt. Doc has me taking 1/2 troche/day each half containing 110mg test, 25mg DHEA, 15mg pregnenelone. My question is would it be safe to inject this. The absorption of test through the buccal lining in the mouth is poor at best. Im just wanting to get more bang for my buck. The troche tastes very bitter too. Im pretty sure there is some artificial sweetner in there and PEG is used as the binder. Any thoughts, or procedures fire away!
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
making homebrew test suspension from troche
- Thread starter donnieD
- Start date
I don't know.
If you want to do some rational experimentation, step 1 would be, What are all the listed ingredients? Including the inactives.
If there are no problems there, we can move to a next reasonable step.
If you want to do some rational experimentation, step 1 would be, What are all the listed ingredients? Including the inactives.
If there are no problems there, we can move to a next reasonable step.
Well, it may be just prejudice or lack of knowledge on my part: definitely lack of knowledge is involved.
Personally I would be fine injecting any of the ingredients except the bubblegum flavor and the coloring. My concern would be that one or both may not be absorbed orally, and if so then oral safety wouldn't prove injectable safety. Also, concentrations at the injection site would be far higher than experienced when taking orally.
There might well be no issue there, but personally they'd bother me. I would rather go acquire injectable steroids.
Personally I would be fine injecting any of the ingredients except the bubblegum flavor and the coloring. My concern would be that one or both may not be absorbed orally, and if so then oral safety wouldn't prove injectable safety. Also, concentrations at the injection site would be far higher than experienced when taking orally.
There might well be no issue there, but personally they'd bother me. I would rather go acquire injectable steroids.
Bill, thanks for the input. The two innactives you mentioned were also my main concerns. To remove them I was considering dissolving the troche in ethanol, and then titrating the solutes out of solution by adding water. i've tried this with a small quantity and what results is a white precipitate which is, im assuming, testosterone and any other hormones which are not soluble in water(should do my homework on the latter I know) im thinking I could then filter, rinse and collect. From my limited knowledge I assume I would be left with some testosterone powder. Any thoughts, Bill?
Sound thinking. You would also have the DHEA and pregnenolone but these are not issues, at least up to some amount of pregnenolone.
At one point, back in I guess 2000 or 2001, I had found something that caused me to have some concern about overdosing pregnenolone, but I now don't know what it was. About a year ago I put perhaps a day into trying to find it again but never did. I mention this as being only a possibility, that potentially there could be an issue here. For me personally, I would be willing to do it -- I would monitor effect on mood and if there weren't a problem there I personally would accept whatever risk if any there might be. However I'd also put more effort into that question, if I were doing it.
Unfortunately, while I can advise on making a no-ester oil solution, I don't have experience with making suspensions. Others do however and hopefully you will get some good advice there.
With the method you describe, I'd be satisfied that the flavoring and coloring additives were satisfactorily removed.
At one point, back in I guess 2000 or 2001, I had found something that caused me to have some concern about overdosing pregnenolone, but I now don't know what it was. About a year ago I put perhaps a day into trying to find it again but never did. I mention this as being only a possibility, that potentially there could be an issue here. For me personally, I would be willing to do it -- I would monitor effect on mood and if there weren't a problem there I personally would accept whatever risk if any there might be. However I'd also put more effort into that question, if I were doing it.
Unfortunately, while I can advise on making a no-ester oil solution, I don't have experience with making suspensions. Others do however and hopefully you will get some good advice there.
With the method you describe, I'd be satisfied that the flavoring and coloring additives were satisfactorily removed.
Thanks Bill. I will probably opt for a water based suspension, as there is less processing involved after extraction. In regards to sterility issues, I am aware as to the importance of having clean,sterile gear but if I was to simply scrape the extraction and add directly to bact-stat water,assuming that there was no contamination during extraction, would it be sterile enough?
This should be doable, but may be more problematic than with an oil solution as certainly once having the suspension, it's impossible to sub-micron filter.
The procedure you find suitable for making the suspension may very well have the steroid dissolved into, for example, propylene glycol prior to being added to a water solution which may include other components. That PG, or other, solution could be sunmicron filtered prior to adding to the water.
You probably don't want to simply add the precipitate to water, because the particle size may be much too large or there may be clumps that won't break up.
That is the trick of preparing suspensions: particular methods will allow a fine, dispersed suspension. But I've never been personally interested in making them, and don't have a copy of a method written by a credible source (or a non-credible source either, for that matter.) Others absolutely have done it though so hopefully this will turn up for you.
The procedure you find suitable for making the suspension may very well have the steroid dissolved into, for example, propylene glycol prior to being added to a water solution which may include other components. That PG, or other, solution could be sunmicron filtered prior to adding to the water.
You probably don't want to simply add the precipitate to water, because the particle size may be much too large or there may be clumps that won't break up.
That is the trick of preparing suspensions: particular methods will allow a fine, dispersed suspension. But I've never been personally interested in making them, and don't have a copy of a method written by a credible source (or a non-credible source either, for that matter.) Others absolutely have done it though so hopefully this will turn up for you.
Once again, thanks for sharing. Obviously your experience allows you to anticipate problems which a novice such as myself would not even contemplate. So an oil solution sounds like it may be the way to g
n a side note, I have never been much of a forum board trawler, and the whole "circle of trust" thing that goes on within steroid forums is some what intimidating and having to "prove yourself" seemed like too much effort and bravado which i dont have time for. This I mention only because I wouldnt know where to start looking for sterile oils suitable for the task at hand, or BA/ BB and the other things a homebrewer might need (and source related posts are understandably a no-no). Hence my original preference towards a suspension. But if there is anyone who might have a clue feel free to let me know.
n a side note, I have never been much of a forum board trawler, and the whole "circle of trust" thing that goes on within steroid forums is some what intimidating and having to "prove yourself" seemed like too much effort and bravado which i dont have time for. This I mention only because I wouldnt know where to start looking for sterile oils suitable for the task at hand, or BA/ BB and the other things a homebrewer might need (and source related posts are understandably a no-no). Hence my original preference towards a suspension. But if there is anyone who might have a clue feel free to let me know.
The problem with the oil solution is that the duration of action will be only a matter of hours, as this is unesterified testosterone. I can't give an exact number, including because there isn't a sharp divide between "enough effect to count" and "not enough effect to count." But for example, say 8 hours, with considerable variation in level during that time.
That said, personally if using a 29 gauge 1/2 inch insulin needle for IM injection, I'd have no problem injecting 3x/day.
I'd find that the easier solution myself, but that's only because I've never made a suspension. If I had done so, most likely I'd consider the suspension the better solution.
It's entirely possible someone will post for you a good method for making a suspension.
That said, personally if using a 29 gauge 1/2 inch insulin needle for IM injection, I'd have no problem injecting 3x/day.
I'd find that the easier solution myself, but that's only because I've never made a suspension. If I had done so, most likely I'd consider the suspension the better solution.
It's entirely possible someone will post for you a good method for making a suspension.
I ran a few searches and came up with this-
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75mg/ml TNE through a SLIN PIN & NO CLOGGING!!!
-GUARANTEED TO PASS THOUGH A 30GA SLIN PIN.
-NO "BURN"
-NO REDDNESS
-NO LUMPS OR SWELLING
-NO WASTE (CLUMPS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE VIAL)
Guys, I've been working my butt off to perfect this and I finally got it. Here is a formula for Test no ester (water based suspention) at 75mg/ml that will pass through a 30ga slin pin with no clogging. ENJOY!!!
TNE suspention 75mg/ml
Supplies needed
1.5 Grams TNE powder
2 .22um whatman filter
1 10ml vial
1 20ml vial
2 18ga Pins with 3ml plungers
1 5 ml plunger
1 10ml plunger
2 ml Benzyl Benzoate (10%)
.4 ml Benzyl Alcohol (2%)
.6 ml Polysorbate 80 (3%)***Trust me on this***
15.875 ml Distilled water
1. Add your BB and PS80 to your beaker (10ml vial) with your TNE powder and heat until it is in liquid form.
2. reduce heat enough to keep it liquid (med low temp on a hot plate) ***note: you must keep it on heat so it does not crash while filtering into the distilled water***
3 Put .4 ml BA and 15.875 ml distilled water in your 20ml vile.
4. Most of you will prefer to filter the BB/PS80/TNE mix which it great, but I prefer just to use a glass dropper to slowly drop it into the water 1ml at a time (BECAUSE GLASS WILL NOT MELT IN YOUR HAND) However, if you want to filter the concentrate use a .45um whatman filter and only do 1 ml at a time.
5. slowly add your BB/PS80/TNE mixture to your water 1 ml at a time, and after every ml you add put the stopper on the vile and shake vigerously. REMEMBER ONE ML AT A TIME. **THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT**
by the time you're done it should be milky white and perfect, with this method it won't clump or seperate to the bottom like it did with PEG. The TNE will stay milky and completely seperated and will go through a 30ga by 1/2" slin pin like pure water with no clogging and no pain at all!
-----------------------------------------------------
HDH
------------------------------------------------------------
75mg/ml TNE through a SLIN PIN & NO CLOGGING!!!
-GUARANTEED TO PASS THOUGH A 30GA SLIN PIN.
-NO "BURN"
-NO REDDNESS
-NO LUMPS OR SWELLING
-NO WASTE (CLUMPS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE VIAL)
Guys, I've been working my butt off to perfect this and I finally got it. Here is a formula for Test no ester (water based suspention) at 75mg/ml that will pass through a 30ga slin pin with no clogging. ENJOY!!!
TNE suspention 75mg/ml
Supplies needed
1.5 Grams TNE powder
2 .22um whatman filter
1 10ml vial
1 20ml vial
2 18ga Pins with 3ml plungers
1 5 ml plunger
1 10ml plunger
2 ml Benzyl Benzoate (10%)
.4 ml Benzyl Alcohol (2%)
.6 ml Polysorbate 80 (3%)***Trust me on this***
15.875 ml Distilled water
1. Add your BB and PS80 to your beaker (10ml vial) with your TNE powder and heat until it is in liquid form.
2. reduce heat enough to keep it liquid (med low temp on a hot plate) ***note: you must keep it on heat so it does not crash while filtering into the distilled water***
3 Put .4 ml BA and 15.875 ml distilled water in your 20ml vile.
4. Most of you will prefer to filter the BB/PS80/TNE mix which it great, but I prefer just to use a glass dropper to slowly drop it into the water 1ml at a time (BECAUSE GLASS WILL NOT MELT IN YOUR HAND) However, if you want to filter the concentrate use a .45um whatman filter and only do 1 ml at a time.
5. slowly add your BB/PS80/TNE mixture to your water 1 ml at a time, and after every ml you add put the stopper on the vile and shake vigerously. REMEMBER ONE ML AT A TIME. **THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT**
by the time you're done it should be milky white and perfect, with this method it won't clump or seperate to the bottom like it did with PEG. The TNE will stay milky and completely seperated and will go through a 30ga by 1/2" slin pin like pure water with no clogging and no pain at all!
-----------------------------------------------------
HDH
Once again, thanks for sharing. Obviously your experience allows you to anticipate problems which a novice such as myself would not even contemplate. So an oil solution sounds like it may be the way to g
No worries on this. You can find the stuff pretty easy. Here is a link-
Supplies
HDH
First, suggested changes that have not actually been tried must generally be taken with caution, as practice is the actual determinant of success, not theory.
However, I expect that if choosing to not be greedy on concentration and going for "only" 50 mg/mL, adjusting this formula to use only 1.00 g of powder instead of 1.50 g, the issue of needing to keep hot while filtering to avoid crashing might well be rendered non-existent.
Filtering would probably work fine at room temperature or a moderately warm temperature that eliminated all issues of using hot BB/BA through plastic. If it were me, I'd do it that way.
ZKT: I dont understand how sublingual dosing of Testosterone could be effective because a)testosterone is not water soluble, hence it does not dissolve in saliva, which is, as far as I know, mostly made of water,digestive enzymes and bacteria. So the only way it (T)will dissolve into the blood stream is across the epithelial tissue which makes up the sub lingual avia the very limited amount of lipids(fat) present in
ZKT: I dont understand how sublingual dosing of Testosterone could be effective because a)testosterone is not water soluble, hence it does not dissolve in saliva, which is, as far as I know, mostly made of water,digestive enzymes and bacteria. So the only way it (T)will dissolve into the blood stream is via the limited amount of lipids(fat) present in the cells which make up the epithelial tissue of the sub lingual area of the mouth. Assuming that the lipids present in these tissues can only acheive a finite concentration of said hormomes, one can only deduce that the reasons for such high dosing of hormomes in troches is a sub optimal level of absorption. My troches are dosed at 230mg of T. I take 1/2 twice per day. This only bumped my free test a few points up from the mid ranges where they were before I started on trt.
When testosterone is complexed with cyclodextrin the amount that's absorbed isn't insignificant from the HRT point of view: it's a few milligrams if I recall correctly.
From the standpoint of doing a steroid cycle, the amount absorbed is pretty insignificant.
Without cyclodextrin complexation, as you say sublingual absorption is extremely poor for precisely the reason you say.
From the standpoint of doing a steroid cycle, the amount absorbed is pretty insignificant.
Without cyclodextrin complexation, as you say sublingual absorption is extremely poor for precisely the reason you say.
