Masteron SERM Myth

[hometeam]

Unfortunately like the #1 thing all bodybuilder believe to be true about Masteron is actually false. It's an urban legend that Masteron was used as a SERM in breast cancer patients to reduce estrogen levels. Someone once said "Masteron must act as a SERM, I dunno why the hell else they'd use it for breast cancer" and it made sense so the myth grew.

The fact is all androgens shrink breast tissue or at least inhibit it's growth, and androgens work particularly well in a type of breast cancer called ER positive breast cancer. So anabolic androgenic steroids that do not aromatize to estrogen have been used for this purpose and they call it androgen therapy.

Nandrolone/Deca was used for breast cancer before, after and while Masteron was used. In fact a head to head trial showed neither compound worked better than the other for breast cancer. Halotestin has been used for breast cancer as well. And currently Ostarine is being investivated for used in breast cancer patients.

Now, does it actually act as a SERM? There are no peer reviewed studies showing it does and it was never designed for or used as a SERM to begin with. So we rely on a handful of anecdotal reports of 1 person's blood work before and after using Masteron. And the only reason anybody thought it might work as a SERM is based on false pretenses of "why the hell else would they give it to breast cancer patients?" So, your guess is as good as mine.

 

[OmL]

Where’d you get your masters in endocrinology and Oncology?

 

[MrGTO]

I know this from personal use. If i run to much Mast and to little Test i get low E2 symptoms. I have never confirmed it with bloodwork because of timing etc. If i increase Test to equal or slightly higher dose than Mast the symptoms go away. I know its not scientific but…

 

[hometeam]

@MrGTO It is strange that many years afterwards people under false assumptions about the original researcher's and drug manufacturer's work may have found a property of the compound that they missed and would've really appreciated.

 

[Rido]

Do you have anything to support your statement? They compare it to nolvadex which is a serm and doesn't reduce estrogen levels either?

From the all shit you talk about this I am a little surprised you are comparing a serm as a something that reduces estrogen.

Your starting statement of saying that it isn't a serm because it doesn't reduce e2 sets up your whole statement for failure.

Even the anabolic doc talks about how it was used in palliative care. If something doesn't show a difference in regards to treatment response doesn't mean it cannot palliate symptoms.

Studies aside there are plenty of anectodal reports that people have stared their gyno has shrunk on Masteron



View: https://youtu.be/Uka5niyOCIo




.

 

[Rido]

@MrGTO It is strange that many years afterwards people under false assumptions about the original researcher's and drug manufacturer's work may have found a property of the compound that they missed and would've really appreciated.

Dude... There are plenty of drugs that they found additional indications after it has become generic.

Wellbutrin is a huge fucking example.

 

[hometeam]

Do you have anything to support your statement? They compare it to nolvadex which is a serm and doesn't reduce estrogen levels either?

From the all shit you talk about this I am a little surprised you are comparing a serm as a something that reduces estrogen.

Your starting statement of saying that it isn't a serm because it doesn't reduce e2 sets up your whole statement for failure.

Even the anabolic doc talks about how it was used in palliative care. If something doesn't show a difference in regards to treatment response doesn't mean it cannot palliate symptoms.

Studies aside there are plenty of anectodal reports that people have stared their gyno has shrunk on Masteron



View: https://youtu.be/Uka5niyOCIo




.

Yeah I saw that video too and that's one thing that disappointed me about the anabolic doc. He perpetuated a bro science myth here instead of spending 20 minutes on google and pubmed. Same goes for the Anavar being metabolized solely by the kidneys myth if you watch his video on that.

I would post some links but it's not hard to find this for yourself and I'm a bit tired after working a night shift.

Sorry if you think I'm talking shit. Take a chill pill.

 

[Shadow Project]

The anabolic doc is a tard anyway.

I believe adding drostanolone can have a benificial effect on estrogenic sides because adding such an androgen that will not aromatize, will result in a more favorable ratio between androgens and estrogens.

 

[Rido]

Yeah I saw that video too and that's one thing that disappointed me about the anabolic doc. He perpetuated a bro science myth here instead of spending 20 minutes on google and pubmed. Same goes for the Anavar being metabolized solely by the kidneys myth if you watch his video on that.

I would post some links but it's not hard to find this for yourself and I'm a bit tired after working a night shift.

Sorry if you think I'm talking shit. Take a chill pill.

Sorry, I just don't see any information online to state that claims it doesn't have anti estrogenic properties.

Coming out to make a strong claim and showing evidence to back up your statement seems a little half assed doesn't it?

I'm a little pissy as I am sitting awake with shingles, lol my bad.

Get some sleep.

 

[Rido]

The anabolic doc is a tard anyway.

I believe adding drostanolone can have a benificial effect on estrogenic sides because adding such an androgen that will not aromatize, will result in a more favorable ratio between androgens and estrogens.

Not a fan of when he reads shit off of a piece of paper like he is telling you a nightmarish bedtime story but I enjoy his discussions.

 

[hometeam]

@Cridi887
Here's a couple articles to start you on your search:

[Androgen therapy of incurable breast neoplasms. Controlled clinical study: nandrolone-testololactone-drostanolone] - PubMed

In 91 patients with advanced breast cancer testololactone, drostanolone, and nandrolone were compared in a controlled clinical trial. Remissions were registered after 4 weeks and after another 12 week period; during this second interval the patients received an additional treatment with...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Frontiers | The Divergent Function of Androgen Receptor in Breast Cancer; Analysis of Steroid Mediators and Tumor Intracrinology

Androgen receptor (AR) is the most widely expressed steroid receptor protein in normal breast tissue and is detectable in approximately 90% of primary breast...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[Rido]

@Cridi887
Here's a couple articles to start you on your search:

[Androgen therapy of incurable breast neoplasms. Controlled clinical study: nandrolone-testololactone-drostanolone] - PubMed

In 91 patients with advanced breast cancer testololactone, drostanolone, and nandrolone were compared in a controlled clinical trial. Remissions were registered after 4 weeks and after another 12 week period; during this second interval the patients received an additional treatment with...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Frontiers | The Divergent Function of Androgen Receptor in Breast Cancer; Analysis of Steroid Mediators and Tumor Intracrinology

Androgen receptor (AR) is the most widely expressed steroid receptor protein in normal breast tissue and is detectable in approximately 90% of primary breast...

www.frontiersin.org

That is my point for the first one .. even what the anabolic doc said. It's used for palliation or help alleviation of symptoms. It has nothing to do with survival rate.

That goes to the fact that there is nothing to back it up that it, it is the same reason I cannot find anything online.

There is a study that says "immediate results" from drostanolone but I am assuming that it is a short study and doesn't discuss their death. I cannot even find a place to get the article with payment or a research account .

Look man, I am just comparing masteron to nolvadex. We do not fix our e2 symptoms right away . We do not see a drop in e2 from using nolvadex either.

The basis of your claim doesn't make sense to me to state it doesn't act like a serm because it didn't play a role in remission of breast cancer.

I'm not gonna disclose what I do, but I also deal with assisting in palliation of symptoms. I know that alleviating pain or symptoms may not hasten or slow down their death but improve their quality of life.
I can speculate what you do for a living and I know it's pretty cut/dry if they are gonna live or not.


While we aren't dying from high e2. Here are countless people able to run masteron and alleviate their high e2 symptoms which most people would agree that it does.

 

[hometeam]

@Cridi887 you're missing the point. The point isn't to find some peer reviewed paper or article that says Masteron doesn't work as a SERM. The point is it was never developed, manufactured, or ever used as a SERM in breast cancer patients and thus no paper showing whether it does or doesn't act as a SERM exists.

And the second link I provided goes into great detail explaining just how androgen therapy with nandrolone, drostanolone, halotestin and ostarine works for breast cancer by acting upon the androgen receptor alone and not doing anything for estrogen or the estrogen receptor.

But I'm sure there are better links out there too. Just what I found in 30 seconds. And if you think these links don't prove my case some other smart guys on here will show you otherwise, I'm sure.

 

[VenomYo]

The anabolic doc is a tard anyway.

I believe adding drostanolone can have a benificial effect on estrogenic sides because adding such an androgen that will not aromatize, will result in a more favorable ratio between androgens and estrogens.

the anabolic doc is literally a tard. theres no way hes a real doctor. holy shit it seems like his iq is in the low 80s

or hes just perpetually drunk, maybe he should change his name to the alcoholic doc

 

[ManK]

Masteron cant act as anti-aromatase, but it add androgenicity that LIMIT e2 related saides: are two different things.

 

[grey]

Your starting statement of saying that it isn't a serm because it doesn't reduce e2 sets up your whole statement for failure.

@hometeam

As everyone has said (and you keep blithely driving by) is that SERMS or SERM-like compounds are NOT fucking AIs!

The fact that a compound doesn't reduce aromatization has absolutely nothing with SERMS or SERM-like effects.

Jesus, talk about bro-science.

 

[Rido]

@hometeam

As everyone has said (and you keep blithely driving by) is that SERMS or SERM-like compounds are NOT fucking AIs!

The fact that a compound doesn't reduce aromatization has absolutely nothing with SERMS or SERM-like effects.

Jesus, talk about bro-science.

I guess his basis is that now is there is no proof it was manufactured as for breast cancer. There is also no proof it wasn't made for candies to give out to kids.

There is no FDA documentation or the original clinical trials stating reasons for development (That is easily accessible to the public)

For some reason he is associating "clinical trials as reasons for development" vs "Clinical trials to find additional indications"

Now he is using studies for his straw man argument which doesn't make sense. He wants to make a claim and tell us to go find an article to prove him wrong.

 

[MrGTO]

@MrGTO It is strange that many years afterwards people under false assumptions about the original researcher's and drug manufacturer's work may have found a property of the compound that they missed and would've really appreciated.

I feel like i should get numbers from blood work to actually see what is happening but usually its a seat of my pants decision and it never gets documented. I just need to plan it out one time because its very predictable with how it affects me. Test and Mast being the compounds i have used the most together.

 

[hometeam]

@hometeam

As everyone has said (and you keep blithely driving by) is that SERMS or SERM-like compounds are NOT fucking AIs!

The fact that a compound doesn't reduce aromatization has absolutely nothing with SERMS or SERM-like effects.

Jesus, talk about bro-science.

Sure, SERMs interact with the estrogen receptor to reduce the effects of estrogen and AIs actually reduce estrogen.

How's this, for sheer technical words mincing accuracy just to make you happy? Masteron was never researched, manufactured, marketed or prescribed for modulating the estrogen receptor in breast cancer patients nor was it for reducing estrogen levels.

In fact it was used for "androgen therapy" and the androgen receptors of the breast tissue was it's sole target in breast cancer patients.

The closest theoretical effect it (and other androgens listed) would have on the ER is maybe the AR and ER work together in some fashion and by activating one there may be an effect on the other.

 

[Type-IIx]

@hometeam Absolutely right that Mast is not a SERM and does not modulate the ERs. But it does ostensibly prevent estrogen uptake in a tissue-selective manner, is effective for treatment of male gynecomastia, and an auxiliary function in its efficacy for treatment of breast cancer (despite falling out of favor due to androgenicity) appears to be its decreasing the plasma prolactin level (not unique in this latter regard). As I've mentioned several times, the nonaromatizing androgens containing a secondary 17B-hydroxy- group appear the most effective in reducing symptoms of high estrogens (nandrolone is a member of this class as well but does aromatize at ~20% of T), and it seems a class effect of androgens to mitigate treatment-resistant breast cancer primarily, at least, by increasing the androgen/estrogen ratio.