Hi guys, Just curious about you thoughts on Mike Menzter's high intensity(which I know is good) very low sets. Has this really worked well for anyone? I just don't feel I'm getting as much out of it as intense longer workouts(been doing it only for 1 week) How does it stack up to other philosophies? I just don't want to waste my time if it's not the best use of my time in the gym. Thanx bros. Greg B. Is it felt that he's and his brother's use of gear contributed to their early deaths. I know they say it was a congenital heart defect. Thanx again.
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Anabolic Steroids
Menzter's program
- Thread starter supwiz
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supwiz said:
Generally, those who start doing HIT after they've been doing a real high volume M&F routine for a while tend to see a lot of improvement initially while switching to HIT.
Unfortunately, as a year-long program, it doesn't seem to be very good. And as far as science goes, I can tell you there is none in the program. Also, it really fails to manipulate overall stress to the body over a training cycle, so thats a huge drawback.
A good routine to pick if you want something that will not only deliver constant gains over a year long period, but also teach you a lot about training theory, is Bill Starr's 5x5. If you take the time to learn why this works, and JS (and to some extent myself) can help you with this, you will learn A LOT about training theory. However, that really requires you to train 3x a week at 1-1.5 hours a workout. If you're short on time, or are uninterested in strength, HST (not HIT) is a better choice.
The type of people who seem to benefit from HIT are those who cycle it into year long training cycles with high volume programs. I think Ramstein is a good example of this. He's got a physique I think a lot of you guys would be envious of, and he's a nature lifter (or at least he was) to my knowledge. I'm not saying I advocate cycling HIT into a year long program, cuz I'm not. But people have done it and apparently have made it work. I think you're better served to pick a well developed routine, and just do it over and over and over again back to back, making slight changes where necessary.
If you can do that, you'll get to a point where you won't need to rely on other people's programs.
One last thing about HIT and the 5x5. In strenth training Mark Rippletoe is generally accepted to be the best at adding lean mass to beginners, ask JS if you don't believe me, and his programs look awfully similar to the 5x5. He never uses HIT style programs.
As for their deaths, I don't know. It would be disrespectful on my part to speculate.
eleven11
New Member
I read they died from inherited heart problems. there father died very young too if I remember right.
As far as HIT it will only work if you train VERY intence. but I think certain BP lack from once a wk training. I agree with Freedy that the other programs will give you better overall results................11
As far as HIT it will only work if you train VERY intence. but I think certain BP lack from once a wk training. I agree with Freedy that the other programs will give you better overall results................11
Desibaba
New Member
Its not a very good program for the long run.It became famous primarily when dorian yates started recommending it.It has the potential to cause a lot of injuries and you have to have only one chance on that one set to failure.It went like this.Arnold on one side recommending high volume and mentzer on the other hand recommending low volume but at a very high intensity.The best approach for most people is somewhere in between.
Gavin Laird
New Member
HIT blows big scabby donkey dicks.
I've talked about the science of this before till I was blue in the face but fuck it, the above says it just fine. Do a 5 x 5 , HST, DFHT or a cyclic volume / load / intensity program like mine instead.
G.
I've talked about the science of this before till I was blue in the face but fuck it, the above says it just fine. Do a 5 x 5 , HST, DFHT or a cyclic volume / load / intensity program like mine instead.
G.
Cmon Gavin, tell us how you really feel!Gavin Laird said:
HIT advocates prefer not to listen or accept the science aspects of why their program sucks. Its a little weightlifting cult.Gavin Laird said:
Heck of a post, Freddy, if I was in the choir I'd be singing 'aa..aamen, aaa...aaaaamen'.
I was a convert to the Mighty Mentzer and Sir Arthur Jones. I made some gains, and things were good, until I discovered, hey guess what, you body wasn't meant to max out like that all year round, and everything started getting injured.
I must not be high enough intensity, was your thought every day as you didn't understand why progress stopped. Oh my, I must not be resting enough time, better only work out every 9 days now...
Progress halts, injuries make lifting a pain, and you wonder how Ayn Rand could possibly be wrong...
So I read a bunch of stuff by her, and she's full of shit.
Mentzer and Jones oversimplified weight lifting to be like getting a tan. They didn't take into account the cellular activity in hypertrophy. They wanted and found a simplistic view that they could sell to the average guy.
Hey, work less, make up for it by being an intense animal the 45 min. you do work out! Rest more! Grow more!
Who doesn't want to hear that. It's an easy sell.
When I read the principles in HST, every experience I've had over 25 years of lifting, told me it was true. You DO grow even though not fully recovered. You can stimulate growth before full recuperation, and in fact you MUST do so to take advantage of how cells work.
Injuries? On HST, not likely.
For my HST, instead of going to negatives, I'm heading for 5x5's for another 2 - 3 weeks. That's always where I grow. I figure why not up the volume after 6 weeks of HST, it's just another adaptation my body will have to make.
But Mentzer's program, was for sterioid users and guys who have been doing volume. That's my opinion based on my own failure to really succeed with HIT (success lasted maybe 9 months).
I was a convert to the Mighty Mentzer and Sir Arthur Jones. I made some gains, and things were good, until I discovered, hey guess what, you body wasn't meant to max out like that all year round, and everything started getting injured.
I must not be high enough intensity, was your thought every day as you didn't understand why progress stopped. Oh my, I must not be resting enough time, better only work out every 9 days now...
Progress halts, injuries make lifting a pain, and you wonder how Ayn Rand could possibly be wrong...
So I read a bunch of stuff by her, and she's full of shit.
Mentzer and Jones oversimplified weight lifting to be like getting a tan. They didn't take into account the cellular activity in hypertrophy. They wanted and found a simplistic view that they could sell to the average guy.
Hey, work less, make up for it by being an intense animal the 45 min. you do work out! Rest more! Grow more!
Who doesn't want to hear that. It's an easy sell.
When I read the principles in HST, every experience I've had over 25 years of lifting, told me it was true. You DO grow even though not fully recovered. You can stimulate growth before full recuperation, and in fact you MUST do so to take advantage of how cells work.
Injuries? On HST, not likely.
For my HST, instead of going to negatives, I'm heading for 5x5's for another 2 - 3 weeks. That's always where I grow. I figure why not up the volume after 6 weeks of HST, it's just another adaptation my body will have to make.
But Mentzer's program, was for sterioid users and guys who have been doing volume. That's my opinion based on my own failure to really succeed with HIT (success lasted maybe 9 months).
Freddy said:
Mentzer's program
Hey guys, thanx a ton-excellent posts, esp. Freddy's. Where could I go to get some solid info. on how to incorporate either 5x5 or HST training? I've got about 26 years of training in doing a little bit of everything. Like to have something more specific/designed. Thanx bros. Greg B.
Hey guys, thanx a ton-excellent posts, esp. Freddy's. Where could I go to get some solid info. on how to incorporate either 5x5 or HST training? I've got about 26 years of training in doing a little bit of everything. Like to have something more specific/designed. Thanx bros. Greg B.
HST and 5x5 each have their own sticky threads at the top of the training forum. The 5x5 program is listed under "Tribute to John Smith."
Juggernauttx
New Member
I think 5x5 is perfect after the weeks of 5s, because you are at that rep range anyways, plus it lets you do a lil strength training to get stronger so you can start off at a bigger weight for the 15s.
That's what I'm hoping for. The 5x5 seems the perfect way to finish off HST without doing eccentrics. And after that, 2 weeks of SD should really make me ready for those horrible 15's again. (grin)
Part of my problem is likely that I decided to get cut for the summer, so magically losing fat while gaining muscle is SLOW going. Worth it to me though, as a compromise.
Part of my problem is likely that I decided to get cut for the summer, so magically losing fat while gaining muscle is SLOW going. Worth it to me though, as a compromise.
Juggernauttx said:
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