Mixing tren and deca.

[Deacon]

posted with permission from Fcontact at Atomical Muscle


Deca and Tren will not give you progesterone induced gyno. Deca being a nandrolone and Tren being a nandrolone derivative will cause a rise in prolactin levels which in turn COULD cause GALACTORRHEA (inappropiate lactation of the nipple) not GYNOECOMSTIA. Gyno is caused by a raise in estrogen levels to do AAS such as Testosterone that aromatise. Prolactin and estrogen do not even stimulate the same parts of the breast. Estrogen stimulates or causes growth beginning at the ducts of the breast in conjuction with have estrogenic fatty tissue surrounding the nipple. High prolactin levels will cause a stimulation or growth in the alveoli of the breast. The alveioli are what secrete milk, hence why lactation problems would occur. That being said, I find no reason for you to worry about combining the two in the way you have presented your cycle simply because of the doses and the times of administration of the two compounds. The only thing I would strongly advise is to take B6 at 300mg/ed to suppress prolactin levels. Also, extend the prop to 4wks in the beginning instead of 2wks. With the test you should have no problems with erections. If you really are worried about shutdown and erection problems then you could take HCG at 500iu e4d wks 1-12, but I don't think it's necassary.
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[Phreezer]

posted with permission from Fcontact at Atomical Muscle


Deca and Tren will not give you progesterone induced gyno. Deca being a nandrolone and Tren being a nandrolone derivative will cause a rise in prolactin levels which in turn COULD cause GALACTORRHEA (inappropiate lactation of the nipple) not GYNOECOMSTIA. Gyno is caused by a raise in estrogen levels to do AAS such as Testosterone that aromatise. Prolactin and estrogen do not even stimulate the same parts of the breast. Estrogen stimulates or causes growth beginning at the ducts of the breast in conjuction with have estrogenic fatty tissue surrounding the nipple. High prolactin levels will cause a stimulation or growth in the alveoli of the breast. The alveioli are what secrete milk, hence why lactation problems would occur. That being said, I find no reason for you to worry about combining the two in the way you have presented your cycle simply because of the doses and the times of administration of the two compounds. The only thing I would strongly advise is to take B6 at 300mg/ed to suppress prolactin levels. Also, extend the prop to 4wks in the beginning instead of 2wks. With the test you should have no problems with erections. If you really are worried about shutdown and erection problems then you could take HCG at 500iu e4d wks 1-12, but I don't think it's necassary.
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WOuld you care to enlighten me how B6 can stop prolactin gyno? And how HCG alone will fix the Erection problems that suppresion will cause someone to have?

I wasn't going to flame you...but this post is a joke...

Later on tonight.. I'll try to post some correct and legitimate information about prolactin gyno and how to combat it...(Technically RU 486 is the only thing that can stop prolactin gyno) But by properly combating estrogen with Arimidex or femara one can keep a handle on estrogen so there is no conversion... I'll explain with greater detail later tonight...

 

[pimpofny]

I have heard that deca and tren should not be mixed also
what is the reason???

I was doing both 4 a little while and recently cut down the deca dosage after the advice of a well known body builder.

I hear this debate all the time but what is the truth?

 

[spound]

yes i would l.ike to know as well b/c I think deca and tren together (along w/ some test) would be a great cycle for strength and mass.

 

[graybass]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrg!!!

This debate never stops!
Here we go again. During my last cycle, I was on 1500mg test, 600mg Deca, and 500mg Tren Enanthate EW. I used Tren and Deca together only about 5 weeks, than switched to just Tren 4 more weeks(still with Test E.) Than just Test for the last week. Took only 20mg Nolva during last 6 weeks of cycle, than 1000iu HCG ED for the last 2 weeks of cycle, than started Clomid at 100md ED two weeks after my last shot.
This worked perfect for my beat up old body, LOL. I had NO SIDES! Well, maybe I was a litte more agressive than normal, but I'm a fairly calm person most of the time, so even my GF did not notice.

By no means am I recommending this cycle to anyone other than myself.
I just think proper Anti-E, and a really good PCT program is Key!

PS, I gained so much that my Chiropractor says I'm WAY over my genetic potential. "Yipee Ky Ay Mo Fo!!" He wants me to lose muscle. I'll get right on that!!!!!( He did say it's the leanest he's ever seen me )

That BIG old graybass

 

[jocko]

bump for more info

 

[Eating Machine]

Graybass you give me hope bro. I have read all the warnings and decided to give it a go anyway. Although I am apparently not as ballsy as you, cause i'm dosing tren at 300mg per wk and deca at 400 along with some test at 850, some hgh, igf, winny, and whatever else I feel like. I'm using so little letrozole it really cant be considered. So far I have not grown tits or spewed anything out of them.

 

[graybass]

Remember, I'm not saying what I do is right for anyone else. The amounts I'm talking about are because I've been cycling for so long.
My Old ass needs 1000mg of Test just to have my morning coffee. LOL
I've never been prone to Gyno anyway.
So it's probally just me that can handle these amounts.

Even so, I gotta say the gains were stupid good. Best cycle of my life.

Die fucking huge, point is to have a custom made coffin. J/K LOL

That Big Old Graybass

 

[ultragrowth2004]

Either way; i can run Test all day long with a little arimi and nolva and be ok but 3-4 days after i start tren my nip is very sensitive and have a big lump under it.

 

[Deacon]

Phreezer - I dont take it as a flame but I also do not think the post is a joke.

Every guy I know runs B-6 with their tren cycles and say it works great for prevention - I dont know of any clinical studies but if the bros say it works it does - and as far as HCG I also believe it does work as stated.

I am with Graybass - running both in the same cycle does not bother me one bit - I had no problems at all in the way of sides.
As a matter of fact there are many places to find cycles where deca and tren along with test are listed as major mass cycles.

I think they deca tren debate is a myth. It may cause gyno in some but it sure as hell is not prevalent in the guys I know.
Of course IMO gyno is so damn overrated it is pathetic. Like a bed time story to scare little bodybuilders to sleep. Either you are prone to it or not and in what I see more are not than that are.

But I look forward to your follow up post - I know it will be full of great info.

 

[Phreezer]

I thought I had the article backed up.. however, I can't find it... Max Rep is the original poster...Perhaps he still has it.. I will ask him to post something.....

 

[einstein1905]

Luvmyroids (and I believe I have too on here) posted several studies showing how B6 effectively reduces prolactin levels....that's well-established.
Using tren and deca (both progestins) certainly will increase the risk of progestin-induced gyno. The galactorhea is merely a symptom of such. He's correct in saying that estrogen and progesterone (and thus progestins) induce growth of different tissue types (ductal and alveolar, respectively), but growth of breast tissue gives rise to gyno, regardless of the underlying tissue type that is growing.....manboobs are manboobs. Using a sharpie to write on your bra that your boobs weren't caused by estrogen will do little to put the gawkers at ease.
The increased prolactin is a related but separate issue.....my thinking, although not always clear or right, is that since progesterone has affinity for prolactin receptors, it's the prolactin receptor agonism caused by the progestins causing some of the prolactin problems......no one has yet clearly explained this, so it's impossible to say exactly what's occurring.

One thing is certain...increasing the quantity of causative agents will increase the risk in susceptible individuals. Not everyone has the same concentrations of estrogen, progesterone, and prolactin receptors, so not everyone will be as susceptible to the various agonists. The only way to know for sure is to find out for yourself......alternatively, you could take the intelligent route and spend the extra $20 per cycle and purchase proper preventatives....and take the guesswork out of it.

 

[einstein1905]

One more thing.....I don't preach the anti e's because of gyno....they have much greater value than that. B6 to lower prolactin, which further inhibits HPTA, has been implicated in depression, and is known to reduce libido is an obvious and cheap fix....the preventing of gyno is merely a bonus.

The anti estrogens are to keep estrogen levels within a reasonable range so as to control BP, as hypertension inhibits proper oxygenation of muscles, leading to premature fatigue....again, preventing gyno is a bonus.

And, no, they don't inhibit gains when used properly......they inhibit the inhibition of gains.

 

[TenMan]

Let me tell you this:

Planned on an 8 week cycle of:

800 mg test ethanate/week
100 mg trenbolone acetate/day
600 mg deca/week
20 mg nolvadex per day

After the first week, nipples sore and puffy. Felt at times that they were slightly lactating, but I couldn't tell for sure.

At the end of week five, I discovered a very hard, pea sized lump under the areola of my left nipple. I freaked out, started searching like a mother for the answer on MESO.

Immediately, stopped the tren and deca, but kept the test and Nolvadex. Began taking 1 gram of B6 and 4 grams of Vitex per day. In 3 days, nipples were no longer sore, but still erect. At 7 days, nips appear normal and the lump appears to be shrinking. I will continue on this protocol for 2 more weeks.

I have run many test/tren cycles in the past without any problems whatsoever...actually, you could say I've used boatloads of tren without any issue. This was the first time in my life I used Deca...alone or with a test/tren cycle and look what happened....lump in tittie.

I firmly believe that it was the Deca that caused my problem...whether it was the Deca "alone" or in combination with the tren, it really doesn't matter.

Bottom line is that I will NEVER USE DECA AGAIN. If I cannot sell what I have left to my bro's, I'm throwing it in the garbage.

Anyway, in five weeks I gained HUGE size and strength on this stack...about 40 lbs of body weight. Great friggin mass builder, however, I cannot mentally handle the lump issue, so it's back to the basic test/tren cycle...with maybe some dbol thrown in for good measure.