My E2 Levels, what is ideal?

Vforcer2

New Member
Blood Test 1 after 5 weeks of HRT, day before next shot 4/14/05

Had been taking 240-480mg of Tyler Indoplex DIM for weeks. It didn't have much effect on me, and it is the exact patent# as the PhytoPharma Brand.
Estradiol-- 59 (0-52)


Blood Test 2 after 12 weeks of HRT, day before next shot 5/26/05.

Started taking 4 caps of ALRI Ultra HOT about 30 days before this blood draw. Had reduced Libido (never any erection problems, just lost interest in sex). Suspected it was the Ultra HOT bringing E2 levels to low, so I dropped down to 3 caps nightly and I still feel my libido is waning a bit. I may try going down to 2 ULTRA HOT caps and see what happens.

Estradiol-- 17 (0-52)

Pretty drastic drop in E2. My Libido was much higher before starting HRT.
What is an ideal E2 number?
 
I do good at 20 to 35 if I were you I would stop taking the stuff until your libido comes back. I have been to low a lot of times and now us my morning wood as a gauge. I use Indolplex/DIM I just stopped taking it last Monday because my morning wood has stopped. And I take Cialis 20 mgs. every 72 hrs. so my morning wood is just starting to come back when it is rock hard the kind that wakes you up I will go back on it but half the does. This is what works for me.
Phil
 
DavidZ--I'll have to remember that one!

I try to keep E2 about midrange. I am also now testing Total E's, as it is common for men to have target E2 and greatly elevated Total E's. These guys report estrogen sides which, were it not for the TE assay, would have otherwise gone undiagnosed. I then run a 24 hour urine hormone panel, to look at a breakdown of the involved hormones and metabolites.

Aromatase Inhibitors (i.e. Arimidex) are very good at lowering E2, but not nearly as effective at lowering Total Estrogens. Why I do not yet know. Anyone know how the Ultra HOT is at this?
 
I will remind you that changes in libido are completely natural.

And that inducing hormonal changes through supplementation induce ripples through your Endocrine system which take months to even out. Changing what you are doing at the first sign of no "morning wood" is nonsense. You put yourself on a hormonal roller coaster.

To share a personal experience, I do not have this be-all-and-end-all "mornng wood" which everyone worships. And I have one of the most abundant, healthy libido's out there. It is a symptom which is VASTLY over-rated. Additionally, men tend to credit--and blame--their hormones for every aspect of their sexual being. In fact, hormones play only a part in this complicated process. And putting yourself on a hormonal roller coaster just makes things harder (pun intended) to sort out.
 
I am 39 years old, and getting an erection has never been an issue at all for me.

It would seem to make sense that I continue to use ULTRA HOT, but cut back on it, and continue to use DIMM as ther might be some positive benefits in metabolising those totoal estrogens you are talking about.

I have had an Estronex test done, which measures the ratios of 16-Hydroxyestrone (16OHE1) and 2-Hydroxyestrogens (2OHE). My ratios were much worse than my wifes!! You can see a sample report at: http://www.metametrix.com/TestServ/PDFs/T142%20estronex%20sr.pdf
My result was .99, well below the reference range for an appropriate ratio of the measured estrogens.

Swale, with regards to the ULTRA HOT, here is what the ALRI website has to say about it:

Ultra H.O.T. (Hormone Optimization Trimatrix)

60 capsules

What Do Men Want?

Optimal performance at the very best possible level in everything we do.
More muscle, less fat, more sex
More Everything!

Did you know that the male body actually can produce way more testosterone than it needs? Like an average 400% increase above what is normal for you, and maintain it for months at a time, naturally?

Is this some lame claim of "steroid-like" effects from a legal supplement? Nope! Just some advance science applied for the betterment of men everywhere.

Yup, Applied Lifescience Research Industries Inc. is pissing people off again. This time we did it with a whole new approach to a very old idea: Natural Optimized Male Human Performance through the optimization of male human physiology. No, this is not just some silly-ass sex product either.

This requires precise strategic supplementation for the male body that guarantees results you can see and feel in the gym, in the bedroom wherever you need to perform your best with an advantage. How?
Let me explain

A mans body produces almost all of its limited supply of natural testosterone by way of the HPTA (Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Testes-Axis). Basically, the Hypothalamus and the Pituitary tell the testes just how much testosterone to make or not. It also decides your performance level more than you think.
Two separate factors called negative feedback loops regulate HPTA activity and limit the amount of testosterone you have:

Estrogen Negative Feedback loop

In males, testosterone is converted into estrogen by an enzyme called aromatase. Normally, higher levels of testosterone also mean excess estrogen. The hypothalamus "senses" the excess estrogen and limits or shuts down testosterone production. Estrogen increases fat stores as well. Thanks to our modern environment, plastics and soy-everything, we already have far too much unnatural estrogens.

Androgen Negative Feedback loop

The hypothalamus also senses increases in testosterone. This is mediated through androgen receptors. An increase in testosterone too results in the hypothalamus telling the testes to limit or shut down testosterone production. But estrogen gets to run amok doing girlie things to your body anyway.

So the key to increase testosterone production naturally and significantly (to a point that really matters) is controlling these two negative feedback loops (not just one).
Secret Formula? (Nope, just good science)

(Step one: Good-bye Estrogen Negative Feedback Loop)

6,17-dioxo-etiocholene-3-ol (3-OHAT) is a powerful non-androgenic anti-aromatase that decreases estrogen levels in males an average of 50% everywhere in the body including in and around the hypothalamus. And it is effective in a one time daily administration. Multiple studies have shown that this natural occurring goodie stimulates and maintains testosterone elevation in males.

3,17-dioxo-etiochol-1,4,6-triene (ATD) is another highly effective aromatase inhibiting compound that is statistically 3 times more powerful than current popular anti-estrogen supplements. The reason is rather simple in that it binds to aromatase more tightly than any other available product due to a unique high affinity. So now we have two compounds that synergistically rid our male bodies of excess estrogen. But what about the Androgen Negative Feedback Loop?
(Okay, here goes the problem with the Androgen Negative Feed Back Loop)

3,17-dioxo-etiochol-1,4,6-triene is also a site-specific (like the hypothalamus) androgen receptor agonist. Based upon some studies the unique structure of this compound allows for an 80-90% reduction in androgen receptor activity of the hypothalamus, yet only a very small 10% decrease in the rest of the body. So all of that extra testosterone you are now making really works in all the right places!

Of course, someone with a limited knowledge of physiological Action/Reaction Factors will claim some lame idea that this means testosterone is blocked from doing all of its cool things where it matters too. In case anyone missed the point, it is a site-specific androgen receptor agonist that modulates the Androgen Negative Feed-Back Loop.

So, would you rather have an average increase in testosterone production of 400% with a little 10% potential reduction in activity or be average? Gee, tough choice not.

(Estrogen "Clearing" Is A Must Too)

Agaricus bisporus extract is a very interesting item that finishes this manly matrix to maximize results. Oddly enough it is an extract of a specific white button mushroom from a specific area that has been shown in research studies to act upon the aromatase enzyme on multiple levels making this the perfect "mop" to excrete any remaining excess estrogen from a mans body.
Ultra H.O.T. is a patent pending proprietary trimatrix for men that is guaranteed to:

*

Support Natural Testosterone
*

Modulate Fat Causing Estrogens
*

Decrease Water Retention
*

Support Libido & Performance
*

Improve recovery

Ultra H.O.T.
(Hormonal Optimization Trimatrix)
The Premier Catalyst for Optimized Male Hormonal Performance

Supplement Facts:

Serving Size: 1 capsule

Servings Per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving DV%*

KS-Matrix7/ALRI Proprietary blend includes: Agaricus bisporus extract, 6, 17-dioxo- etiocholene-3-ol, 3,17-dioxo-etiochoi-1,4,6-triene, 7beta-Hydroxy-DHEA, Camelia Sinensis (BT).


250mg


**

** Daily value not established. Inactive Ingredients: Magnesium stearate, maltodextrin and gelatin capsule

Suggested Use: As a dietary supplement, take 3-6 capsules nightly. Do not exceed 8 weeks of continuous use

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food & Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent disease.
Reference

Horm Behav. 1989 Mar;23(1):10-26. Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis

Biol Reprod. 2003 Feb;68(2):370-4. Estrogen synthesis in fetal sheep brain: effect of maternal treatment with an aromatase inhibitor.

J.Steroid Biochem. 1987 Sep;28(3):337-44 Studies on aromatase inhibition with 4-androstene-3.6.17-trione: Its 3-beta reduction and time dependant irreversible binding to aromatase with human placental microsomes

J Nutr. 2001 Dec;131(12):3288-93. White button mushroom phytochemicals inhibit aromatase activity and breast cancer cell proliferation. Grube BJ, Eng ET, Kao YC, Kwon A, Chen S.

J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Oct;25(4):593-600. Effect of 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD), 4-hydroxy-4-androstene-3,17-dione (4-OH-A) and 4-acetoxy-4-androstene-3,17-dione (4-Ac-A) on the 5 alpha-reduction of androgens in the rat prostate

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1992 Oct;43(4):281-7. In vitro potency and selectivity of the non-steroidal androgen aromatase inhibitor CGS 16949A compared to steroidal inhibitors in the brain
 
SWALE said:
I will remind you that changes in libido are completely natural.

And that inducing hormonal changes through supplementation induce ripples through your Endocrine system which take months to even out. Changing what you are doing at the first sign of no "morning wood" is nonsense. You put yourself on a hormonal roller coaster.

To share a personal experience, I do not have this be-all-and-end-all "mornng wood" which everyone worships. And I have one of the most abundant, healthy libido's out there. It is a symptom which is VASTLY over-rated. Additionally, men tend to credit--and blame--their hormones for every aspect of their sexual being. In fact, hormones play only a part in this complicated process. And putting yourself on a hormonal roller coaster just makes things harder (pun intended) to sort out.

I'm glad to hear that because there are many days when I have no morning wood, yet I'm horny all day. The more restful the sleep, the better chance I'll have morning wood, for me anyway.
 
Don't get me wrong SWALE I am on Cialis 20 mgs. every 72 hrs and haven't had morning wood in over 20 yrs. Until I got my E2 down Viagra would do nothing for me. Plus I could not reach an orgasm with bad ED for the last 10 yrs. I am sure if you were on Cialis like I am you would have morning wood every morning. I am not saying any one should use this as a gauge like I do because they are not on Cialis every 72 hrs. like I am. My blood tests have shown over and over again that when my E2 is to low my morning wood is gone and I can't get it up to have sex. I use this as a gauge I have found that works for me to tell if my E2 has gone to low. If my wood stops for 3 days I stop taking Indolplex/DIM until it comes back this works dam good for me and I feel the best I have ever felt in the 21 yrs. that I have had low T.
Phil
 

Sponsors

Back
Top