My experiences with GH thus far...about 6 weeks in.

[wldb33rz]

So, long before I contemplated PED's I knew I wanted to try GH and run it for a while. After doing the research and running a secretagogue and liking the results of that, I jumped over to actual GH.

I started at 2IU with a 5on2 off protocol. Not for necessity, just I'm tired of being a pincussion, so I reserve the weekends for no injections. After 2 weeks I bumped up the dose as I adjusted and saw whether side effects would arise or not. I'm currently on 4IU, same bolus dose pre-bed 5 nights a week.

I just started an elevated TRT dose of 250mg/week after my 2nd week into the GH. So current protocol is 250 test and 4IU growth. Based on my results I think I'll be hanging out here for a while and not upping the GH dose.

What I've noticed though is I've gained approx 10lbs which is very obviously water/glycogen. I seem to be recomping because the pants still continue to fit looser and shirts as well, even with the scale weight increase.

I've had no joint issues, which I was expecting since I am arthritic but thankfully, nothing on that front. No CTS issues either. I've also not seen a drift in fasted glucose levels or A1C over the time I've been on GH. I am being seen by 2 different specialists that are taking CBC, CMP, and Lipid panels - so, a bit of redundancy in labwork being performed every 2-3 months.

In the gym though, pumps are a bit unbearable. The first time that happened I was amazed. I was getting fully pumped during my warmups and thought I was just more tuned into noticing that the pumps were happening whereas they seemed to be mid final set before I'd actually feel a pump before. Now, they limit my full range of motion and almost to the point of cutting my sets early as a result. Almost, I power through it and seems to do good.

Due to those pumps, I feel doms soreness while still in the gym. It tends to fade as the evening goes on, but returns with a vengence on waking and fades through the day. Unsure if I'm just going harder because I can or if this is purely just a result of the test + gh, but the DOMS seems to linger for a few days. I'm told that this is a transient effect and will adapt over the next month or so, I guess I'll be seeing how transient that effect actually is.

Figured I'd share my experiences thus far for anyone that's on the fence on using this or what to expect when using gh. I got most of the "wellness" benefits such as sleep and recovery from the secretagogues so I'm not noticing extra benefits on that front from the actual GH.

I'm also older (mid-40's), so I expect this to be a much higher than replacement dose already for me. I was planning on upping the dose to 6-8IU, but based on how I'm feeling and responding to 4IU I am not seeing the need to push the dose that high.

 

[lilhawk]

GH will give some of the best pumps and fullness of any compound there is. When dieting hard it will still keep you full and round. If you think 4iu is good and the pumps are intense then up it to 8-10iu and see what you think lol. I always prefer to use a higher dose of 8-10iu when dieting hard then cruise at 3-4iu the rest of the year. I'm also in my 40's like you.

 

[wldb33rz]

GH will give some of the best pumps and fullness of any compound there is. When dieting hard it will still keep you full and round. If you think 4iu is good and the pumps are intense then up it to 8-10iu and see what you think lol. I always prefer to use a higher dose of 8-10iu when dieting hard then cruise at 3-4iu the rest of the year. I'm also in my 40's like you.

Not sure I want *more intense* pumps. As it is, its limiting my movements and range of motion in the gym. If it were any more intense Im not sure it would be very helpful. As an example. I had a hard time reaching my ears to pull the earbuds out post-workout.

That said, I stocked up with the intention of going to 6-8IU. Im not opposed to it, but I think I will hang out here at 4IU for the time being.

 

[Ghoul]

Not sure I want *more intense* pumps. As it is, its limiting my movements and range of motion in the gym. If it were any more intense Im not sure it would be very helpful. As an example. I had a hard time reaching my ears to pull the earbuds out post-workout.

That said, I stocked up with the intention of going to 6-8IU. Im not opposed to it, but I think I will hang out here at 4IU for the time being.

Get you IGF-1 so you have some sense of how sustainable this dose is and how much headroom you may have to increase should you choose to.

 

[Avies48]

GH will give some of the best pumps and fullness of any compound there is. When dieting hard it will still keep you full and round. If you think 4iu is good and the pumps are intense then up it to 8-10iu and see what you think lol. I always prefer to use a higher dose of 8-10iu when dieting hard then cruise at 3-4iu the rest of the year. I'm also in my 40's like you.

U mainly run seros right? So how has that been compared to generics? Has seros lowered the rhr issue most see on generics?

 

[wldb33rz]

Get you IGF-1 so you have some sense of how sustainable this dose is and how much headroom you may have to increase should you choose to.

Already planned. Unsure of baseline because of secretagogue usage for the past 8 months and didnt think to grab a baseline back then. But I am keeping track.

BTW: I already have the labs scheduled, but will be done later this month after I've been on my current 4IU dose for about 6 weeks to see what the response is.

 

[explodingHeart]

Get you IGF-1 so you have some sense of how sustainable this dose is and how much headroom you may have to increase should you choose to.

But dieting massive decreases igf-1 so the dose is dependent on the context, correct?

 

[wldb33rz]

I should have mentioned in the OP, I'm currently eating at maintenance calories to take a break from deficit.

 

[Ghoul]

But dieting massive decreases igf-1 so the dose is dependent on the context, correct?

It's mostly dependent on protein intake.

At 1.5-2g / kg even in a 20% calorie deficit IGF is typically unaffected, or, at worst, a 5-10% drop in IGF.

Insufficient protein, below .8g/kg could drop it 40%.

Takes a couple of weeks to see the impact from the deficit or after returning to full calorie intake.

To be clear, this is the calorie / protein deficit effect on GH to IGF conversion in the liver when using rHGH. (it increases hepatic GH resistance)

Without rHGH, a calorie deficit and insufficient protein still causes hepatic GH resistance, but any drop in IGF isn't as large because calories deficits trigger an increase in GH production.

(my theory the purpose of the body shifting to higher GH / lower IGF in a calorie deficit is to liberate stored calories from fat and throttle down growth/repair when calories are scarce)

 

[lilhawk]

U mainly run seros right? So how has that been compared to generics? Has seros lowered the rhr issue most see on generics?

Yeah all I run are Seros. Everyone has their opinion on Pharma vs generic and I have run almost every brand of pharma and all the top generics. Pharma is superior for me and all I will use. I never have elevated rhr with Seros even using 8-10iu per day. Generics when I used to run them years ago had it elevated about 10 bpm, and I also held water with generics that I don't with Seros.

 

[johnjay06]

So, long before I contemplated PED's I knew I wanted to try GH and run it for a while. After doing the research and running a secretagogue and liking the results of that, I jumped over to actual GH.

I started at 2IU with a 5on2 off protocol. Not for necessity, just I'm tired of being a pincussion, so I reserve the weekends for no injections. After 2 weeks I bumped up the dose as I adjusted and saw whether side effects would arise or not. I'm currently on 4IU, same bolus dose pre-bed 5 nights a week.

I just started an elevated TRT dose of 250mg/week after my 2nd week into the GH. So current protocol is 250 test and 4IU growth. Based on my results I think I'll be hanging out here for a while and not upping the GH dose.

What I've noticed though is I've gained approx 10lbs which is very obviously water/glycogen. I seem to be recomping because the pants still continue to fit looser and shirts as well, even with the scale weight increase.

I've had no joint issues, which I was expecting since I am arthritic but thankfully, nothing on that front. No CTS issues either. I've also not seen a drift in fasted glucose levels or A1C over the time I've been on GH. I am being seen by 2 different specialists that are taking CBC, CMP, and Lipid panels - so, a bit of redundancy in labwork being performed every 2-3 months.

In the gym though, pumps are a bit unbearable. The first time that happened I was amazed. I was getting fully pumped during my warmups and thought I was just more tuned into noticing that the pumps were happening whereas they seemed to be mid final set before I'd actually feel a pump before. Now, they limit my full range of motion and almost to the point of cutting my sets early as a result. Almost, I power through it and seems to do good.

Due to those pumps, I feel doms soreness while still in the gym. It tends to fade as the evening goes on, but returns with a vengence on waking and fades through the day. Unsure if I'm just going harder because I can or if this is purely just a result of the test + gh, but the DOMS seems to linger for a few days. I'm told that this is a transient effect and will adapt over the next month or so, I guess I'll be seeing how transient that effect actually is.

Figured I'd share my experiences thus far for anyone that's on the fence on using this or what to expect when using gh. I got most of the "wellness" benefits such as sleep and recovery from the secretagogues so I'm not noticing extra benefits on that front from the actual GH.

I'm also older (mid-40's), so I expect this to be a much higher than replacement dose already for me. I was planning on upping the dose to 6-8IU, but based on how I'm feeling and responding to 4IU I am not seeing the need to push the dose that high.

How’s your heart rate?

 

[wldb33rz]

How’s your heart rate?

I've not noticed any changes in RHR, and BP is optimal (116/65) I check daily. But I'm also on Retatrutide, which also raises RHR minimally.

 

[johnjay06]

Ret and hgh spikes the shit out of mine to around 100 from 65. I’m jealous of people who don’t have that problem lol

 

[wldb33rz]

Ret and hgh spikes the shit out of mine to around 100 from 65. I’m jealous of people who don’t have that problem lol

Mine's up from 76 to 85, but seems solid there and the docs dont see an issue with that, so I'm keeping an eye on it. Seems to come down right before my reta dose down to about 82 then shoots right back up to about 85 again. I havent noticed any difference on the GH. Only been on the GH for 6 weeks, but the reta for about 8 months now. Not seen any unusual spikes since starting the GH.

 

[JK1]

Ret and hgh spikes the shit out of mine to around 100 from 65. I’m jealous of people who don’t have that problem lol

Ssme

 

[malfeasance]

It's mostly dependent on protein intake.

At 1.5-2g / kg even in a 20% calorie deficit IGF is typically unaffected, or, at worst, a 5-10% drop in IGF.

Insufficient protein, below .8g/kg could drop it 40%.

Takes a couple of weeks to see the impact from the deficit or after returning to full calorie intake.

To be clear, this is the calorie / protein deficit effect on GH to IGF conversion in the liver when using rHGH. (it increases hepatic GH resistance)

Without rHGH, a calorie deficit and insufficient protein still causes hepatic GH resistance, but any drop in IGF isn't as large because calories deficits trigger an increase in GH production.

(my theory the purpose of the body shifting to higher GH / lower IGF in a calorie deficit is to liberate stored calories from fat and throttle down growth/repair when calories are scarce)

Ghoul,

I was at 350 grams of protein daily and cut my IGF-1 down to 53 in contest prep. I cannot now remember my growth hormone dose, but I think it was 4 or 6 iu daily (memory, this was at least 5 years ago).

It cause quite a stir for a source on another board.

I retested from the same batch later, post contest, after eating more calories, and it was in the high 200s or so.

I felt badly about having ever posted anything.

At the time I was unaware of how diet restrictions affected IGF-1, but my point here is that my protein was hardly "insufficient." You have probably seen me push higher protein to folks posting on the board for cutting advice.

 

[Ghoul]

Ghoul,

I was at 350 grams of protein daily and cut my IGF-1 down to 53 in contest prep. I cannot now remember my growth hormone dose, but I think it was 4 or 6 iu daily (memory, this was at least 5 years ago).

It cause quite a stir for a source on another board.

I retested from the same batch later, post contest, after eating more calories, and it was in the high 200s or so.

I felt badly about having ever posted anything.

At the time I was unaware of how diet restrictions affected IGF-1, but my point here is that my protein was hardly "insufficient." You have probably seen me push higher protein to folks posting on the board for cutting advice.

There are so many variables to all this what you’re describing is definitely possible.

What was the primary source of the protein?

 

[malfeasance]

Chicken! $$$

Secondary was cod, haddock, and tilapia.

I think salmon was out at that point due to fats.

Tertiary was eggs (or egg whites, I can't remember of whole eggs were down to 2 or 1 at that point).

 

[Ghoul]

Chicken! $$$

Secondary was cod, haddock, and tilapia.

I think salmon was out at that point due to fats.

Tertiary was eggs (or egg whites, I can't remember of whole eggs were down to 2 or 1 at that point).

Ok that makes sense, last question. What kind of food was the refeed that boosted IGF?

 

[Ghoul]

Among the million other things that all factor into this insanely complex IGF feedback system:

Liver requires sufficient insulin signaling in proportion to amino acids to synthesize IGF.

Very high protein, low fat can mean liver doesn’t see enough insulin for IGF-1 synthesis.

Studies show low IGF-1 even when protein intake is high, if it’s very lean, total calories from fat <20% and low carb, because insulin can be too low in fit people with high insulin sensitivity.

Presumably whatever made up those extra calories stimulated high enough insulin levels to kick IGF-1 synthesis back into gear.