My friend's blood tests

Sargovar

New Member
I was wondering if you could give your input regarding some bloodwork a friend of mine did a while ago. He's been struggling with his weight lifting and health, and I mean really struggling. To give you some perspective on what his life has been like, he is 26 years old with a past history of heavy alcohol consumption, irregular eating, obesity followed by near starvation (man was a hefty heifer for a couple of years and then starved himself into a skeleton) etc. All possible factors that could have contributed to his current endocrine problems.

Anyway, after a very rough adolescence and young adulthood, he somehow got inspired to lift weights and start eating healthy (probably because he was hanging out with us and watching us do it :p ). Well, the first 2 years he made OK progress and seemed to be reclaiming his health, or should I say creating it since he never really had it in the past. Now, it is important to point out that he had the markers of pre-onset diabetes, or at the very least insulin resistence, before he cleaned up his lifestyle, so those changes were of paramount importance, and probably saved his life.

After a couple of years of what seemed like a positive direction for him, he started to hit a brick wall with his progress.In fact, he started to regress in a major way. All his lifts came down inexplicably, for instance, he is still struggling to bench more than 80 pounds! And yes, that is not a typo! It has nothing to do with faulty technique, either. I've seen him bench and he does it right. Same goes for the rest of his lifts.
Also, he's been putting on massive amounts of fat lately, too. For a while it seemed as if he was actually building a little bit of muscle, but lately, even with a caloric intake as low as 2400 kcal/day, his waistline has been expanding like nobody's business. It's like.. all he has to do is walk past McDonald's and get a whiff of the burger grease, and his shirt buttons start flying around like bullets from the speed at which his gut balloons.

That, and his joints seem to be perpetually broken. And his back. And his wrists and ankles. He has to take time off lifting every now and then to recuperate from injuries that should not occur for a healthy person (certainly not with the weights he's using & the proper form and technique).
It's almost comical at times, the poor guy's misfortunte!

Anyway, all of these factors combined lead us to believe he might be suffering from complex neuro-endocrine problems.

Here are his blood test results:

TSH - 2.18 (0.3 - 4.2)
Free T4 - 12.1 pmol/l (11 - 22)
Free T3 - 4.8 pmol/l (4 - 6.8)
E2 - 0.156 nmol/l (0.03 - 0.20)
Cortisol - 610 nmol/l (no reference range??)
Fasting Glucose - 5.3 mmol/l (4 - 6)
LH - 2.7 U/l (1.7 - 8.6)
Progesterone - 1.3 nmol/l (no reference range??)
Prolactin - 297.6 mU/l (86 - 324)
Ferritin - 48 ug/l (30 - 400)
C-Reactive protein - Less than 5 (5 - 10)
Vitamin B-12 - 450 pmol/l (140 - 540)
Fe (iron?) - 24.5 umol/l (9 - 34)
Total Testosterone - 15.67 nmol/l (that's 452 ng/dL)

Any treatment suggestions? His thyroid is obviously out of whack, his testosterone is on the low side (LH very low as well), and his prolactin seems higher than it should be.
 
I was wondering if you could give your input regarding some bloodwork a friend of mine did a while ago. He's been struggling with his weight lifting and health, and I mean really struggling. To give you some perspective on what his life has been like, he is 26 years old with a past history of heavy alcohol consumption, irregular eating, obesity followed by near starvation (man was a hefty heifer for a couple of years and then starved himself into a skeleton) etc. All possible factors that could have contributed to his current endocrine problems.

Anyway, after a very rough adolescence and young adulthood, he somehow got inspired to lift weights and start eating healthy (probably because he was hanging out with us and watching us do it :p ). Well, the first 2 years he made OK progress and seemed to be reclaiming his health, or should I say creating it since he never really had it in the past. Now, it is important to point out that he had the markers of pre-onset diabetes, or at the very least insulin resistence, before he cleaned up his lifestyle, so those changes were of paramount importance, and probably saved his life.

After a couple of years of what seemed like a positive direction for him, he started to hit a brick wall with his progress.In fact, he started to regress in a major way. All his lifts came down inexplicably, for instance, he is still struggling to bench more than 80 pounds! And yes, that is not a typo! It has nothing to do with faulty technique, either. I've seen him bench and he does it right. Same goes for the rest of his lifts.
Also, he's been putting on massive amounts of fat lately, too. For a while it seemed as if he was actually building a little bit of muscle, but lately, even with a caloric intake as low as 2400 kcal/day, his waistline has been expanding like nobody's business. It's like.. all he has to do is walk past McDonald's and get a whiff of the burger grease, and his shirt buttons start flying around like bullets from the speed at which his gut balloons.

That, and his joints seem to be perpetually broken. And his back. And his wrists and ankles. He has to take time off lifting every now and then to recuperate from injuries that should not occur for a healthy person (certainly not with the weights he's using & the proper form and technique).
It's almost comical at times, the poor guy's misfortunte!

Anyway, all of these factors combined lead us to believe he might be suffering from complex neuro-endocrine problems.

Here are his blood test results:

TSH - 2.18 (0.3 - 4.2)
Free T4 - 12.1 pmol/l (11 - 22)
Free T3 - 4.8 pmol/l (4 - 6.8)
E2 - 0.156 nmol/l (0.03 - 0.20)
Cortisol - 610 nmol/l (no reference range??)
Fasting Glucose - 5.3 mmol/l (4 - 6)
LH - 2.7 U/l (1.7 - 8.6)
Progesterone - 1.3 nmol/l (no reference range??)
Prolactin - 297.6 mU/l (86 - 324)
Ferritin - 48 ug/l (30 - 400)
C-Reactive protein - Less than 5 (5 - 10)
Vitamin B-12 - 450 pmol/l (140 - 540)
Fe (iron?) - 24.5 umol/l (9 - 34)
Total Testosterone - 15.67 nmol/l (that's 452 ng/dL)

Any treatment suggestions? His thyroid is obviously out of whack, his testosterone is on the low side (LH very low as well), and his prolactin seems higher than it should be.

My back was saved by Grunt and the hyperextensions he suggested.
attachment to post #25
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/65808-spine-surgery-l3.html

for stronger version
see animated pictures here:
[ame=http://cgi.ebay.com/GLUTE-HAM-STRING-MACHINE-LARGE-ROLLER-SEATS-GYM-HYPER_W0QQitemZ260151537378QQihZ016QQcategoryZ15281QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting]GLUTE HAM STRING MACHINE LARGE ROLLER SEATS GYM HYPER - (eBay item 260151537378 end time Sep-19-07 11:36:14 PDT)[/ame]

I just got the machine with rollers and will try to progress further.

also this will do:
Amazon.com: Body-Solid PowerLine Chair / Back Hyper Extension: Sports & Outdoors

======================================================================
Free T3 - 4.8 pmol/l (4 - 6.8)
=(6.8-4.8)/(6.8-4)=0.71
he is missing 71% of T3
Get him up to 4 grains Armour and then re-check

Prolactin high---> Dostinex

Ferritin - 48 ug/l (30 - 400) low , LEF liks it at (50-150)
Iron Protein Plus, 300 Mg 100 Capsules
Iron Protein Plus
one possibly 2 pills

Total Testosterone - 15.67 nmol/l (that's 452 ng/dL)
That is low.
Unless his DHT is very low (also bad) he have to use injectable testosterone.
He may want to mark time and try HCG alone to see if it helps (fat chance, guessing)
or get his SHBG I will calculate proper strting dose of Testosterone.
Or look it up in my table, post #40
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
===================================================================

Look at my post #44 for ideas on further testing, blood, urine.

Easiest to start is with Armour (script or no script)
If he have a hard time to get to 4grains do good testing of Adrenals.
OTOH any adrenal testing will end up with 20-30mg Cortef/day
plus Florinef if case is harder.
I do not know beyond that marker and hopefully he will not need it.

If he have a lots of patience, he may be better off trying Synthroid (T4) instead Armour.
If his body are able to make T4--->T3 conversion he should be better off that way.
 
Thanks for the feedback Janz and zkt! :)

My friend was over yesterday, and I discussed with him what you had suggested. More comprehensive adrenal testing (if necessary), and other tests to rule out all possible illnesses (Cushing's etc). I will also suggest these hyperextensions to him. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he has herniated discs or anything of that severity, but his back is definitely weak, and there's a possibility he could develop more debilitating problems in the future. He would definitely benefit from such exercises.

And, as per your suggestions, he'll look into Armour thyroid & Dostinex. We're already discussing taking a trip to a neighboring country where you can get all the prescriptions your heart desires if you just pay the doctor a paltry bribe of money (that is, if he fails to get a prescription from docs at home, which is entirely possible considering that his readings are only borderline low). What about Bromocriptine? I hear it's good for lowering prolactine, and has the added benefit of lowering one's bodyfat setpoint.

What struck me as odd is that while his ferritin was very low, his iron levels seemed pretty decent. But then again, I'm not very knowledgeable on that particular aspect of endocrine chemistry.

Regarding his low testosterone, he was of the opinion that he'd rather try something that doesn't freeze his natural T output. Is there any particular reason why you're guessing hCG would not benefit him, Janz?
 
Thanks for the feedback Janz and zkt! :)

My friend was over yesterday, and I discussed with him what you had suggested. More comprehensive adrenal testing (if necessary), and other tests to rule out all possible illnesses (Cushing's etc). I will also suggest these hyperextensions to him. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he has herniated discs or anything of that severity, but his back is definitely weak, and there's a possibility he could develop more debilitating problems in the future. He would definitely benefit from such exercises.

And, as per your suggestions, he'll look into Armour thyroid & Dostinex. We're already discussing taking a trip to a neighboring country where you can get all the prescriptions your heart desires if you just pay the doctor a paltry bribe of money (that is, if he fails to get a prescription from docs at home, which is entirely possible considering that his readings are only borderline low). What about Bromocriptine? I hear it's good for lowering prolactine, and has the added benefit of lowering one's bodyfat setpoint.

What struck me as odd is that while his ferritin was very low, his iron levels seemed pretty decent. But then again, I'm not very knowledgeable on that particular aspect of endocrine chemistry.

Regarding his low testosterone, he was of the opinion that he'd rather try something that doesn't freeze his natural T output. Is there any particular reason why you're guessing hCG would not benefit him, Janz?

There is no harm in using HCG alone.
To give him best chance do
every day 150iu

even better chance
every day hcg 150iu + hmg 75iu

either way give at least 3 months time and then evaluate.
The second version is specially good if hi want to get girl pregnant.
======================================================
Read post #47
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

- Bromocriptine (2.5 mg one or more times a day)
- Pergolide (.25 mg to .50 mg twice a day)
- Dostinex (.5 mg twice a week)

IIRC there is preference for Dostinex due to side effects.
All have not nice sides but that is at the much higher doses used in treating Parkinson.
 
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Ferritin mesures the bodys iron reserves. Low valies may be a indicator of malnutrition and/or impending anemia. Disproportunate fat around the waiist is often a sign of adrenal-thyroid imbalances, insulin resistance and can progress into type II diabetes. He needs a real good workup with labs.
 
What struck me as odd is that while his ferritin was very low, his iron levels seemed pretty decent. But then again, I'm not very knowledgeable on that particular aspect of endocrine chemistry.

Did he get an RBC done? It would be helpful to see those results.

I don't see anything wrong with his ferritin. It is within the lab's reference range and only two points below the bottom end of what JanZ reports as LEF's optimal range.

If it were low, in the presence of a normal serum iron level, it would indicate that he has adequate iron stores but is unable to utilize the iron. This might be reflected in his RBC as low hemoglobin and/or a low hematocrit. There is a low probability of this because it is a very unusual type of anemia.
 
Did he get an RBC done? It would be helpful to see those results.

I don't see anything wrong with his ferritin. It is within the lab's reference range and only two points below the bottom end of what JanZ reports as LEF's optimal range.

If it were low, in the presence of a normal serum iron level, it would indicate that he has adequate iron stores but is unable to utilize the iron. This might be reflected in his RBC as low hemoglobin and/or a low hematocrit. There is a low probability of this because it is a very unusual type of anemia.



It would also be useful to know what his WBC and platelets are.
 
Janz, that's good to know. Not only for my friend, but for myself as well.. if my testosterone levels don't bounce up enough just from correcting my thyroid & addressing a possible E2/test imbalance, I may consider it. If my T levels are currently in the 500s, I might do fine with hCG alone (get into the 800s or above).

Zkt, yep, I told him to take further blood tests.

Actually, he had a pretty good blood profile done as well.. I just didn't post those values here yet because I wasn't sure if they would be of any significance.

I'm assuming RBC and WBC = red blood cells and white blood cells?

If you can make any sense of these (the abbreviations are in Finnish, so they may be a bit different even though the medical terms are borrowed from the English language:

B-hb (hemoglobin?) - 158 g/l (134-167)
B-HKR - 0.45 (0.39 - 0.5)
B-Eryt - 4.76 E12/l (4.25 - 5.7)
fB-Leuk - 2.8 E9/l (3.4 - 8.2!!)
E-MCH - 33 pg (27 - 33!!)
E-MCHC - 348 g/l (315 - 360)
E-MCV - 95 fl (82 - 98)
B-La - 2 mm/h (1 - 10)
B-Tromb - 149 E9/l (150 - 360!!)

I have a theory that might at least explain his low thrombocyte count (B-Tromb).. high doses of fish oil & cold pressed rapeseed oil (both very high in omega 3s which reduce clotting of blood) as a part of his healthy eating regimen. I had similar, just below the reference range thrombocyte readings and came to that conclusion for myself (the doc I had at that time agreed with me, as did my dad, who has a doctor's license).
 
Janz, that's good to know. Not only for my friend, but for myself as well.. if my testosterone levels don't bounce up enough just from correcting my thyroid & addressing a possible E2/test imbalance, I may consider it. If my T levels are currently in the 500s, I might do fine with hCG alone (get into the 800s or above).

Zkt, yep, I told him to take further blood tests.

Actually, he had a pretty good blood profile done as well.. I just didn't post those values here yet because I wasn't sure if they would be of any significance.

I'm assuming RBC and WBC = red blood cells and white blood cells?

If you can make any sense of these (the abbreviations are in Finnish, so they may be a bit different even though the medical terms are borrowed from the English language:

B-hb (hemoglobin?) - 158 g/l (134-167)
B-HKR - 0.45 (0.39 - 0.5)
B-Eryt - 4.76 E12/l (4.25 - 5.7)
fB-Leuk - 2.8 E9/l (3.4 - 8.2!!)
E-MCH - 33 pg (27 - 33!!)
E-MCHC - 348 g/l (315 - 360)
E-MCV - 95 fl (82 - 98)
B-La - 2 mm/h (1 - 10)
B-Tromb - 149 E9/l (150 - 360!!)

I have a theory that might at least explain his low thrombocyte count (B-Tromb).. high doses of fish oil & cold pressed rapeseed oil (both very high in omega 3s which reduce clotting of blood) as a part of his healthy eating regimen. I had similar, just below the reference range thrombocyte readings and came to that conclusion for myself (the doc I had at that time agreed with me, as did my dad, who has a doctor's license).

Try to talk your dad into our ways of thinking about hormones and other health angles..
With his background he would be quick study.
He could be of great asset to us, when in proper mind set.

All we really want is to be healthy, muscle, bones and mind fully funcional, screw anything in sight and die with full faculties at age 120, during orgasm.
 
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Janz, that's good to know. Not only for my friend, but for myself as well.. if my testosterone levels don't bounce up enough just from correcting my thyroid & addressing a possible E2/test imbalance, I may consider it. If my T levels are currently in the 500s, I might do fine with hCG alone (get into the 800s or above).

Zkt, yep, I told him to take further blood tests.

Actually, he had a pretty good blood profile done as well.. I just didn't post those values here yet because I wasn't sure if they would be of any significance.

I'm assuming RBC and WBC = red blood cells and white blood cells?

If you can make any sense of these (the abbreviations are in Finnish, so they may be a bit different even though the medical terms are borrowed from the English language:

B-hb (hemoglobin?) - 158 g/l (134-167)
B-HKR - 0.45 (0.39 - 0.5)
B-Eryt - 4.76 E12/l (4.25 - 5.7)
fB-Leuk - 2.8 E9/l (3.4 - 8.2!!)
E-MCH - 33 pg (27 - 33!!)
E-MCHC - 348 g/l (315 - 360)
E-MCV - 95 fl (82 - 98)
B-La - 2 mm/h (1 - 10)
B-Tromb - 149 E9/l (150 - 360!!)

I have a theory that might at least explain his low thrombocyte count (B-Tromb).. high doses of fish oil & cold pressed rapeseed oil (both very high in omega 3s which reduce clotting of blood) as a part of his healthy eating regimen. I had similar, just below the reference range thrombocyte readings and came to that conclusion for myself (the doc I had at that time agreed with me, as did my dad, who has a doctor's license).


I agree with you about the platelet (thrombocyte) count. All the rest looks fine except for WBC (leukocytes), which is slightly low. This may be perfectly normal for him. Some people have lower set point than average. Or, his WBC's may low becaus of stress, anxiety, depression, etc. Or he might have a mild viral illness.

I converted the cortisol level to the metric units we use in the US - 16.9 ng/dl - which might be sub-optimal for an AM value. But a single cortisol reading isn't very useful. He needs to do, at the very least, AM and PM cortisol, or a 24-hour urine analysis for cortisol.


There are also the salive tests which Zkt mentioned.


Is English your native language ? You write it extremely well.
 
Janz, hehe, fat chance. :D He is much too proud and hung up on social prestige & maintaining an appearance of a level headed, middle of the road doctor. Anything that even slightly hints at progressive, outside of the box thinking will scare him off. After all, he has his reputation to uphold, and that is (in his mind) a reputation of a man who adheres strictly to the code and "ethics" of textbook western medical practices.
That, and he hasn't been working as a doctor in years.. he's a professor of public health nowadays.
I've tried to get him to write a prescription in the past.. the only thing he's good for is antidepressants. He's too concerned that an investigation might be launched by the welfare agency (that you can shuttle your public sector medical bills to) if he should prescribe something "unorthodox" (ehh.. such as a narrowband UVB device to me for treating my vitiligo.. had to go see a dermatologist to get a prescription :rolleyes: ).

Cpeil, that's what I would have said also.. his blood panel seems ok in that regard.
I managed to find a reference range for our cortisol tests, which is 189 - 682. That would put him with his 610 in a decent range.. of course, provided it wasn't a false positive due to stress caused by the needle. Does the range you use in the US go higher?
I recommended to him that he order a cortisol and DHEA saliva test which I also did a while ago.
Thanks for the props on my English, btw! :p I'm self educated in that respect, as English is neither my first nor second language. I used to live in the States for a few years and managed to develop a good linguistic foundation, upon which I've built up an extensive vocabulary over the years. Hate to sound like I'm bragging, but I'm probably one of the few nordic people in the world who also speaks with an American accent that is damn near indistinguishable from that of a native speaker. :D

The endocrinologist I visited called me today, btw.. he gave me a brief overview of my test results (which I'll get in the mail tomorrow). There were some very strange and even conflicting things there.. such as a high TSH reading (3.4) coupled with an over the charts FT3 and a mid-high FT4. Also, low testosterone (490); lover than last time, but not by much. Cortisol was high normal according to our range. That's all I can remember.. will have to start a new thread on the topic come the results tomorrow.
 

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