My new 5 week labs results....Comments please!

[Vforcer2]

I started HRT with a 200mg front load and then did 100mg per week and have raised it to 150mg per week which feels pretty good. I do the 250 cc of HCG two days before my weekly cyp shot. Initially I had nipple issues that concerned me quite a bit, but then I started taking Indoplex DIMM (320 mg per day) and have not had any nipple issues since.

Blood was drawn on the day before the 5th injection in the morning, fasting, before my HCG injection. I will only list items of interest and "out of range". I have included comments comparing the new 4/7/05 resluts to the 2/05/05 results. The reference ranges are different since I used Quest for the initial baseline results and then LabCorp for the most recent follow up results. FYI, I found LabCorp to be much more expedient with the results.

4/7/05

Bilirubin......2.1.........<0.1-2.1>High (high on baseline test also)

Iron, serum........201........<40-155>High (new test)

HDL..........27...........<40-59>Low (high on baseline test also)

T Chol/HDL Level..........5.1...........<0.0-5.0>High (high on baseline test also)

Thyroid............0.287..........<0.350-5.0>Low (prev. low end of range)

Hemoglobin........17.6...........<12.5-17>High (high on baseline test also)

Hematocrit.........51.4........<36-50>High (high on baseline test also)

Testosterone, Serum......884.............<241-827>High
(baseline was referred to "total" and was 321........<260-1000>

Testosterone, Free.........30.6............<8.7-25.1>High
(baseline was 83.......<34-194>

DHEA Sulfate...........151.............<120-520> (no baseline taken)

Estradiol...........59...........<0-53>High
(baseline was 32......no ref range available on this test)

DHT...........49..........<30-85> (no baseline taken)

IFG-1...........320.........<109-284>High
(baseline was 312..........<260-1000>

I am a little concerned about the consistently high Bilirubin, Hemoglobin, and Hematocrit levels and am wondering why I have this problem. My Thyroid is still low despite taking 1 grain of Armour thyroid per day at the start of HRT in February. It appears I am one of the fortunate folks that have naturally high HGH (IGF-1 levels.....go figure).

I think I will try doubling my dose of DIMM to see what kind of impact that has on reducing my Estradiol levels. I am not big on pharmacuticals, when an alternative natural product is available.

I don't know if my DHT is at a good level or not. I certainly want it to be in the right range to prevent any premature balding.

Comments and suggestions appreciated!! Thanks!

 

[mranak]

You testosterone is too high, which may be why your estradiol is too high as well. However, your DHT is in range. I would back off on the testosterone dosages.

The order to do things is generally as follows:
1) Get thyroid issues resolved
2) Get TRT dosages apprpriately adjusted
3) Manage estradiol if necessary
4) Add in hCG

My 2 cents at this point: give 120mg/week a try for 5+ weeks.

 

[peewee327]

BRO,YOUR Thyroid is actually hyper. that thyroid test looks like a TSH reading which when low shows a hyperactive thyroid, so do not increase the dose of you armour medication. very easy to remember when TSH# is low thyroid function is high(fast/hyper). when TSH# is high thyroid function is low(slow/hypo). so brother your TSH is low which shows hyper/fast thyroid. if you increase armour meds your TSH will actually go lower and thyroid faster/more hyper. causes lots of problems in the long run. steer clear messing with the thyroid unless you have thyroid problems like myself. hope this helps some brother. actually you can lower your dosage of armour thyroid to bring you into normal range

 

[earthdog]

I agree, lower your T dosage. Your levels are pretty high even the day before your shot. E2 is high too.

Your hemocrit is high. It may in fact be over the point where Swale would withhold TRT; if not, it's very close. Another reason to lower the dosage.

 

[cpeil2]

What did your doc say about the bili, Hgb and Hct before you started the HRT? It doesn't seem like they've changed much. In fact, as I remember, you bili was frankly elevated and now it's borderline. So it looks like it's headed in the right direction.

What do you think about the jump in your iron level? You might ask your doc about getting an iron panel done: serum iron, total iron-binding capacity, transferrin saturation and serum ferritin. You definitely don't need any supplements that contain iron.

 

[Vforcer2]

Pewee, thanks for that insight on the thyroid. I am really confused now. I have always felt I had somewhat of a sluggish metabolism. A Dr. a few years ago prescribed Armour at about half the dose and I could feel nor see any noticable difference in metabolism or energy levels.

The new Dr. prescribed double the dosage based on my previous experience. The baseline test back in February was on the low end of the range (but not "out of range") as well, and I assumed she was diligent enough to review those previouse blood test results before giving me the script. I will need to speak with her about this. I was under the impression the Hyperthyroid folks were these people who were skinny and always bursting with energy........which has never been me. Do you think I should cut back from my 120 mg per day(1 60mg pill/twice per day) to 1 pill of 60 mg once per day, and then re-test in a month?

Where do you guys think my T levels should be approx. the day before my shot? As I indicated I have felt pretty darn good at the current dosage, and what do you think that dosage should be dropped down to? I tried 100mg at about week three and felt very tired and sluggish so I increased the dosage, but that could be because that is about when the nads start shutting down thier own T production.

I would like to know what, if anything can I do to drop my Hematocrit levels. Interesting, but not at all funny, is that after starting HRT, I gave birth to a hemorrhoid, which I am wondering might be due to my increased blood cell production creating vascular pressure. I know a guy in his late 60's that has Polycythemia vera and he has to give a pint of blood on somewhat of a regular basis after testing. I hope that is not the road I am headed down.....

Cpeil2, actually I brought Bili, hgb , and hct to the Dr. attention and she had
no comment on them at all. Also I did make an error on the bili range that I posted. The top of the range is 1.2 not 2.1, so I am about double the top of the range. I have no idea why my iron levels are so elevated or what the ramifications are of that, but will I be doing some research on it. Perhaps Swale or others can comment on that. I will look at my supplements and see which might have iron in them.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[Vforcer2]

Pewee,

Here is the rest of my Thyroid results, I acutally messed up earlier and put the word thyroid where the TSB should have been. Maybe this changes the story a little bit, give me your thoughts.

TSB........0.287..........<0.350-5.0> Low
Thyroxine(T-4)............6.3...........<4.5-12>
T-3 Uptake.............34............<24-39>
Free Thyroxine Index.............2.2............<1.2-4.9>

 

[pmgamer18]

Pewee, thanks for that insight on the thyroid. I am really confused now. I have always felt I had somewhat of a sluggish metabolism. A Dr. a few years ago prescribed Armour at about half the dose and I could feel nor see any noticable difference in metabolism or energy levels.

The new Dr. prescribed double the dosage based on my previous experience. The baseline test back in February was on the low end of the range (but not "out of range") as well, and I assumed she was diligent enough to review those previouse blood test results before giving me the script. I will need to speak with her about this. I was under the impression the Hyperthyroid folks were these people who were skinny and always bursting with energy........which has never been me. Do you think I should cut back from my 120 mg per day(1 60mg pill/twice per day) to 1 pill of 60 mg once per day, and then re-test in a month?

Where do you guys think my T levels should be approx. the day before my shot? As I indicated I have felt pretty darn good at the current dosage, and what do you think that dosage should be dropped down to? I tried 100mg at about week three and felt very tired and sluggish so I increased the dosage, but that could be because that is about when the nads start shutting down thier own T production.

I would like to know what, if anything can I do to drop my Hematocrit levels. Interesting, but not at all funny, is that after starting HRT, I gave birth to a hemorrhoid, which I am wondering might be due to my increased blood cell production creating vascular pressure. I know a guy in his late 60's that has Polycythemia vera and he has to give a pint of blood on somewhat of a regular basis after testing. I hope that is not the road I am headed down.....

Cpeil2, actually I brought Bili, hgb , and hct to the Dr. attention and she had
no comment on them at all. Also I did make an error on the bili range that I posted. The top of the range is 1.2 not 2.1, so I am about double the top of the range. I have no idea why my iron levels are so elevated or what the ramifications are of that, but will I be doing some research on it. Perhaps Swale or others can comment on that. I will look at my supplements and see which might have iron in them.

Thanks for the help guys!

Hi here is my take on this keep your T meds right were they are. My labs give rangs by age if yours dose the same you should be in the upper 1/3 of the range for a young man for both Total and Free T. How old are you. As for blood give blood once a month the red cross needs it anyway. I do have a problem with E2 but the idea of lowing your T levels to keep E2 down does not work for me. I am 61 and have been on TRT for over 21 yrs. Here is what my Dr. has me doing for E2 I take a 1/2 of a Indolplex/DIM everyday and 1/4 of an one mg. pill of Arimidex when needed I can tell when my E2 is to high. I am not to take more the 3 1/4 pills a week. I can't see how you can take 320 mgs. a day of Indolplex/DIM it gives me a bad headache and makes me constipated. With your E2 this high you may need to stop the DIM and take a one half of an Arimidex pill everyday for 4 weeks then get tested to see where you are. If this works then go back on the DIM but at the does I told you about it is a bitch going to low. If you feel good at the levels you are on 150 mgs. per week that stay with it. I am on this my Dr. just bumped me up to this dose. I am one of the kind of men that makes E2 fast no matter what dose of T I am on. I feel for most men on TRT and that are older need to control there E2 no matter what there T levels are.
Phil
Phil

 

[greatgro]

Your Test levels are definitely too high. That's where you should be the day or two after the shot, not 5 days later. That MAY explain the high Estrogen, Hemoglobin and Hematocrit. You shouldn't have gone past 100mg per week unless you did bloodwork first. But definitely lower the Test to the 100-120mg range and test again in 5 weeks.

 

[greatgro]

Hi here is my take on this keep your T meds right were they are. My labs give rangs by age if yours dose the same you should be in the upper 1/3 of the range for a young man for both Total and Free T.

I definitely don't agree. You want your Test in the upper end of the range for most of the week, but if it's that high 5 days after the injection then it's probably WAY out of range one or two days after the injection. The high Test is probably causing a number of other tests to be out of range also.

 

[cpeil2]

The top of the range is 1.2 not 2.1, so I am about double the top of the range. I have no idea why my iron levels are so elevated or what the ramifications are of that, but will I be doing some research on it.

With the elevated bilirubin and the elevated serum iron, you might have an iron overload.

 

[Vforcer2]

greatgro, my Hematocrit and Hemoglobin levels were elevated at similar levels (just a little over the top of the reference range) prior to doing HRT. It does not look like HRT has yet had an impact, positive or negative on these levels.

I may consider reducing my T injections and seeing how it goes. I hate the thought of doing that, when I feel fine at the current dosage.

Pmgamer, Dimm does not cause me any negative problems, that I can tell. From what I knowl, Dimm is just a derivative of cruciferous vegatables.

 

[Vforcer2]

cpeil2,

It is very interesting that you mentioned iron overload. Symtoms of Hemochromatosis, are the elevated levels that we have been discussing. To confirm the disease, which is actually something of a genetic predisposition, I need to have my iron saturation levels (total iron binding capacity) checked as well as Serum Ferritin levels. It is easily treated by giving blood on a regular basis. If it went untreated, it could kill me via, heart disease, stroke, or liver cancer. The consistantly elevated Billirubin levels indicate some liver damage according to a lady I just spoke with at ironoverload.com. However, if I do the "bloodletting" and begin to get the iron out of my system, the liver will heal itself. She is sending me a packet of information that goes more in depth. Cpeil2, you may have helped prolong my life! Thank you!

 

[cpeil2]

cpeil2,

Cpeil2, you may have helped prolong my life! Thank you!

My pleasure. You can also have "acquired iron overload, e.g. from getting too much iron from supplements. I read that heavy tobacco smoking combined with high red meat intake can cause acquired iron overload. The treatment for an acquired overload is about the same as for hemochromatosis - bloodletting or chelation therapy.

 

[Desmo996]

I have read that SWALE pulls TRT at a Hematocrit of 55. My H&H are always just over the top of the scale too(17.3 and 50.9ish), of the 4 doctors (2 diff PCP's, one Endo, and one in the ER) I had shown those labs too, none of them were concerned with my H&H being just out of the normal range.

 

[peewee327]

vforcer,

i would stay with the dose of armour that you are on. even though it is below normal range all the other numbers seem good. next time you get a thyroid panel as your doctor to test free T3. that is the amount of the actual active thyroid hormone that is circulating. most PROGRESSIVE doctors like to push TSH levels as low as possible to keep you from feeling like crap but they will not go so low as to make you hyperthyroid. i really wouldnt sweat the low# but do get your free T3 tested next time. what does your doctor say?

 

[Vforcer2]

I have not yet discussed the low thryroid number or for that matter these blood test results with my Dr. I ordered these blood tests on my own.

I have decided to cut back to 120 mg per week on the T and double my dosage of Dimm to see if I can get my T levels in range and also get my Estradiol down.

I am going to also get a some new blood tests at the first of the week to see if I
have the genetic disease Hemochromatosis. Apparantly it is one of the most undiagnosed and untreated diseases in the United States. It may explain a lot of problems for me including Hypogodanism and Hypothyroidism as the Iron overload affects the bodies metabolic functions. It would be nice to get to the root of the problem.

 

[cpeil2]

I am going to also get a some new blood tests at the first of the week to see if I
have the genetic disease Hemochromatosis.

Are you going to have genetic testing done, or just an iron panel? Keep us posted - I am very curious about this.

 

[Vforcer2]

At this point I don't know how to get the genetic testing, but like I said previously, I have an info pak coming from ironoverload.org. I will do the regular blood draw on Tuesday to confirm the Ferritin levels and iron binding levels. I will keep you informed on what I find out.

 

[cpeil2]

At this point I don't know how to get the genetic testing . . . .

I don't have any personal knowledge of this, only what I have read. But, it seems that the iron panel is sufficient to diagnosis the condition. The prevailing opinion is that genetic testing is an unnecessary expense.