my trt dr tells me the red face is cause

[wrathe]

is because i am fair-skined..he said it is like viagra..i get very red from that too. yes my bp is evevated also which plays a role he said..but not to worry.
to be honest i am a bit worried..he wants me to add hcg ,,but i told him that hcg made my skin more red than test when i did it alone.

 

[pmgamer18]

Where was your E2 Estradiol when this happens. When my E2 is high I get red like I have a sunburn. Now that I am taking something to keep it down I don't get red anymore. I am dark skined with drak brown hair. When I first started on TRT 21 yrs. ago my Dr. told me it is the T doing it. Now he knows better.
Phil

 

[wrathe]

i went to dr yesterday he wants to wait till after my 4 th shot to check blood.
he is pretty cool and 2 minutes from my house..you think i should go rite back and get E checked or wait out the next 2 weeks..and on lab corp which test would i want to get thx

 

[ciobl]

wrathe -> keep us posted with the latest.

bros but what about if we tell the pharmacists to reduce the amount of benzyl alcohol in it ? i don't think, again, i might be wrong, but i don't see how it would affect the efficacy of the bacteriostatic water. Supposing, assuming, and i hate to assume that the problem is in the water.

you guys have had problems with cyp as well from what i understand. I haven't.

i noticed hcg, even though i don't have estradiol labs to prove it, but i noticed it raises estrogen levels way more than t or maybe as a package alltogether and while doing so progesterone went up as well.

I know this is getting out of topic, but after the second hcg shot i could see signs, just signs of gynecomastia ( correct me if spelled right ). as soon as i went back to my weekly cyp shot, it dissappeared and it's been like that since then: good.

keep us posted, I want to hear or read what they tell you.

 

[cpeil2]

I talked to a pharmacist at a coumpounding pharmacy and at first he suggested that the redness could be from peripheral vasodilation - another way of saying what Wrathe's doctor said. But he did a literature search and couldn't find anything in the literature that suggests such an effect.

I've experienced the redness with all forms of TRT that I have tried - transdermal, injected cyp and HCG. In addition to the redness, I have had hot flashes, elevated BP, accelerated heart rate and respiratory distress. The symptoms were the worst on the hCG. They were least bothersome when my doc had my try injecting low doses of cyp sub-Q. Also, when using a transdermal dose equivalent to 5g of Androgel, the redness wasn't as bad, and I had no respiratory distress.

I don't think the problem is as simple or benign as Wrathe's doc says it is. I think the most likely culprit is E. I haven't tested my theory yet. But, I think it comes from sharp increases in E, or perhaps unusual sensitivity to E, as Phil suggests. I am not using any T now, haven't for over a month. In another couple of weeks, will retest to see what my baseline levels are. For me, the symptoms are bothersome enough that, if I can't find an answer and a solution, I will give up on TRT. I'd hate to, because I have had short windows of feeling terrific, but it doesn't make sense to me to continue an elective therapy that has such an unfavorable risk/benefit profile.

 

[pmgamer18]

You said "In addition to the redness, I have had hot flashes, elevated BP, accelerated heart rate and respiratory distress." Now I know it is your E2 going to high. Do the testing and make sure you do the E2 Estradiol. Then the day you start TRT again try using Indolplex/DIM try one pill a day and see what happens. Also I take MACA to help level out my hormones. I just order some more to day. This time I am trying the Gelatinized Maca I bought one KG.
http://macaweb.com/
Phil

 

[ciobl]

I don't think the problem is as simple or benign as Wrathe's doc says it is. I think the most likely culprit is E. I haven't tested my theory yet. But, I think it comes from sharp increases in E, or perhaps unusual sensitivity to E, as Phil suggests. I am not using any T now, haven't for over a month. In another couple of weeks, will retest to see what my baseline levels are. For me, the symptoms are bothersome enough that, if I can't find an answer and a solution, I will give up on TRT. I'd hate to, because I have had short windows of feeling terrific, but it doesn't make sense to me to continue an elective therapy that has such an unfavorable risk/benefit profile.

cpeil2 -> right, I don't think the problem is as simple as wrathe's doctor wants to put it neither.
At the same time, while progesterone goes up and let me tell you bros, is not the most pleasant feeling having that soreness in the nipples, progesterone is an indicator estrogen levels in general had a relevant increase.

I will definitely have some estradiol labs done to find out where E is at the moment a month or so from now. If it indeed E is the problem, I won't have a choice than to consider small doses of clomid to counterbalance the negative aspects of hcg, or lowering hcg dosages only or lower testosterone input alltogether.

but cpeil2 -> giving up trt ? you meant injectable, hcg or gel ?

bro I'd like to say the same thing but I'm afraid I can't.

 

[ciobl]

Then the day you start TRT again try using Indolplex/DIM try one pill a day and see what happens. Also I take MACA to help level out my hormones. I just order some more to day. This time I am trying the Gelatinized Maca I bought one KG.
http://macaweb.com/
Phil

bros this is something I wanted to ask:

since indolplex/dim is not a serm class of drug, should we substract estrogen labs related as per swale's recommendation if we have labs done while taking it ??

this is something i wanted to ask but forgot all about it.

 

[pmgamer18]

bros this is something I wanted to ask:

since indolplex/dim is not a serm class of drug, should we substract estrogen labs related as per swale's recommendation if we have labs done while taking it ??

this is something i wanted to ask but forgot all about it.

I take it and get my blood tested every 6 weeks and have my Total E and E2 tested on top of my T tests. This way I know where my E2 is at. But most of the time I go by how I feel. I have tested to low and felt dam good.
Phil

 

[wrathe]

pmgmer18 when you said after reading his othere symptoms you know its E what makes you say that..and if it is would all of those symptoms go away with dim? thx

 

[ciobl]

we know everybody is different.

Shippen talked about this guy that had high E2. After putting him on a 100mg/zinc a day for a period of time ( can't exactly recall number of days ) this guy not only lowered his high estrogen but also improved tremendously, even his t levels increased dramatically.

now, other people might not have a zinc deficiency and therefore might not show any kind of improvement if they are to followed that particular case.

me, personally have had good results with just zinc and don't need to have e labs available, besides, everybody agrees including doctors, the main objective and purpose of hrt is not to satisfy the old methods of endocrinology by making sure numbers are in normal range but to have the patient feeling awesome.

Even Swale has contradicted himself, at one time he said he plans on a protocol where serm class drugs are to be taken alongside with t/hcg. Then at another time he added he's against the idea to run serm's for a long period of time.

I think ( just my opinion ) Shippen is running dim alongside hcg. DavidZ has strongly endorsed it several times and even pmgamer18 has reported excellent results with such administration.

 

[cpeil2]

but cpeil2 -> giving up trt ? you meant injectable, hcg or gel ?

bro I'd like to say the same thing but I'm afraid I can't.

Oh, I don't want to. My baseline free T is 9.4 (7.2 to 24.0). Definitely not the lowest that's been reported here, but down there. And during those brief periods of feeling good, like somebody said, I felt awesome - great attitude, improved focus, big boost in libido, strength gains, etc. But I've felt lousy way more than I've felt good.


The dosing may have been too high, because it can make me pretty irritable. Things that would normally irritate me slightly provoke this real ugly rage - the way I would imagine 'roid rage would be.


There's also a possibility that stress is all wrapped in it. I just finished law school and I'm prepping for the California bar exam. I'm not even going to think about TRT until after the bar exam. I'm hoping one of two things happens:

It turns out that my T was low because of the stress of law school, and, once the pressure's off, it'll go back to a level that I can live with without TRT; or

The symptoms I've been having are caused more by stress and anxiety than they are by the T, and I will tolerate TRT fine once the pressure's off.


But, I still think the likely culprit is one T's conversion products, DHT or E2.

 

[wrathe]

so is dim so powerful that i should not run out tonight and buy a bottle to see if it helps me ? do i need to run blood first?

 

[pmgamer18]

pmgmer18 when you said after reading his othere symptoms you know its E what makes you say that..and if it is would all of those symptoms go away with dim? thx

If it is just getting red but he added hot flashes BP up trouble breathing yes high E2. I would get painc attacks from it being to high.
But you need to be tested to be sure you are high E2 is not to be messed with it will put you on your ass if you go to low.
Phil

 

[ciobl]

If it is just getting red but he added hot flashes BP up trouble breathing yes high E2. I would get painc attacks from it being to high.
But you need to be tested to be sure you are high E2 is not to be messed with it will put you on your ass if you go to low.
Phil

I understand dim helps to keep estrogen levels at normal ranges.

From what I understand it never lowers e as bad as a serm class, or even worse the way an aromatase inhibitor does.

bros ??

 

[cpeil2]

I understand dim helps to keep estrogen levels at normal ranges.

From what I understand it never lowers e as bad as a serm class, or even worse the way an aromatase inhibitor does.

bros ??

Results seem to vary from person to person quite a bit.

 

[ciobl]

Results seem to vary from person to person quite a bit.

bro i don't doubt it varies.

some medical papers showed an instance of inducing aromatase activity contrary
to the rest of papers backing up the inhibition activities.

DavidZ on a recent post quoted:

Since DIM helps the body eliminate E2, it's often called an anti-estrogen. In actuality, DIM probably increases total estrogen, but by shifting the mix from E2 to the 2-hydroxy's. The net result is an increase in total Estrogens, but a significant decrease in the "estrogenic effect."

the rest of the thread is at
Question about DIM and I3C...Swale ?

 

[ciobl]

cpeil2 on your quote:

The dosing may have been too high, because it can make me pretty irritable. Things that would normally irritate me slightly provoke this real ugly rage - the way I would imagine 'roid rage would be.

that happens to me only with cyp, not cg at all, those symptoms can't be t levels by themselves but rather estrogen.

with cyp due to the lack of some drive-thru fast labs, zinc helps. ( but that's just me )

take care bros.

 

[wrathe]

can anybody tell me why dim as apposed to nolvedex or arimedex (my dr. like a-dex)..and i am really ready to push my dr. tomorrow to check my E levels ( i am hopeing it is high so i can cure all that is bothering me)

 

[ciobl]

can anybody tell me why dim as apposed to nolvedex or arimedex (my dr. like a-dex)..and i am really ready to push my dr. tomorrow to check my E levels ( i am hopeing it is high so i can cure all that is bothering me)

wrathe -> keep an eye on arimidex. the word is it lowers e to drastic levels.

about the post earlier:

so is dim so powerful that i should not run out tonight and buy a bottle to see if it helps me ? do i need to run blood first?

i'd like to know if it is that powerful too.