Need to confirm Tren/Heat guidance

[Monstar]

So a friend brewed up several compounds (mast e, test e, nan dec) with very low heat, standard BA/BB 2%/18%, and no issues at all. Made a thread a while back on Tren A becoming a gum like substance, not going into solution, basically sticking to the beaker on both low and no heat, residual being unfilterable.

The provider of powder offered that tren a needs to be brewed near it's melting point (roughly 200 F I think) as the manufacturing process is different and it produces some non estrified tren.

This seems to go against what a lot of people are doing. I recall seeing Fina conversions done without heat at all...just basic solvents.

Any guidance is appreciated.

 

[Dr JIM]

So a friend brewed up several compounds (mast e, test e, nan dec) with very low heat, standard BA/BB 2%/18%, and no issues at all. Made a thread a while back on Tren A becoming a gum like substance, not going into solution, basically sticking to the beaker on both low and no heat, residual being unfilterable.

The provider of powder offered that tren a needs to be brewed near it's melting point (roughly 200 F I think) as the manufacturing process is different and it produces some non estrified tren.

This seems to go against what a lot of people are doing. I recall seeing Fina conversions done without heat at all...just basic solvents.

Any guidance is appreciated.

Heat is the CATALYST .

Have you ever put sugar in water w and wo heat and noticed the solubility differences?

Sure Tren will solubilize in OIL
wo Heat, but you may have to wait a decade before the end product reaches worthwhile concentrations.

A “gum like” end product ?
Hmm I’d need to know more about the protocol being used.

Jim

 

[Monstar]

I realize this and know that heat speeds the rate at which the compound moves into solution. The issue is that NO OTHER compound required much if any heat at 2%/18% and tren immediately went into a permanent gum like solution coating the beaker. I'm guessing they could have eventually been cleaned with solvents etc...but 3 beakers were thrown out on 3 batches. Tren behaved NOTHING like any other compound with all the same ingredients.

I'm wondering if this isn't very low grade tren powder.

 

[Holidaypay]

Tren shouldn't need heat a lot of people don't use heat on tren because its very easy to degrade it if you go through the homebrew section tons of people let it dissolve in solvents with no heat at all an therehas Ben a bunch of problems with tren ace lately I have experienced it personally there is a bunch of threads on it sticking to the bottom an forming a sludge like substance even when heated

 

[Dr JIM]

Tren behaved NOTHING like any other compound

I'm wondering if this isn't very low grade tren powder.

Contamination is CERTAINLY one cause the only way to KNOW is a MS run.

 

[Holidaypay]

If it is sludgy when warm an hard an darker when it dries its exactly like what happened with mine it was from Lmc

 

[Dr JIM]

Tren shouldn't need heat a lot of people don't use heat on tren because its very easy to degrade it if you go through the homebrew section tons of people let it dissolve in solvents with no heat at all an therehas Ben a bunch of problems with tren ace lately I have experienced it personally there is a bunch of threads on it sticking to the bottom an forming a sludge like substance even when heated

How do I put this?

Bc HIGH GRADE AAS are like oils degradation
(Oxidation/Reduction RX) is reasonably difficult and suggests an add mixture of contaminants.

Unfortunately bc HEAT can enhance the solubility of some contaminates the end product
may supersaturate once cooled.

This likely explains the cloudy end product some have experienced.

Folk are wise to ASSUME any RAW
AAS IS contaminated.

Purification can be enhanced using
GSO and water fractionation which is not that difficult.

 

[Monstar]

Tren shouldn't need heat a lot of people don't use heat on tren because its very easy to degrade it if you go through the homebrew section tons of people let it dissolve in solvents with no heat at all an therehas Ben a bunch of problems with tren ace lately I have experienced it personally there is a bunch of threads on it sticking to the bottom an forming a sludge like substance even when heated

This is how I started - it fully dissolved in solvent under no heat but when I added safflower it IMMEDIATELY went to sludge coating the bottom of the beaker which seems to be the standard when this issue shows up.

I just want to confirm that if it's good tren a there shouldn't NEED to be any heat or at least not absolutely required significant heat (100mg/ml safflower oil with 2% BA and 18%BB) which is exactly the case with same components and ratios making 250mg/ml Test E, 200mg/ml Nand D, and 200mg/ml masteron e. Nothing there turned to sticky sludge and until recently I haven't heard of this happening with Tren A.

Working with fina pellets, which we can assume to be quality US vet grade tren, heat was not required whatsoever to get into solution as long as one used decent BB levels and no one ever got the sludge issue which has turned up.

This isn't just "cloudy tren", something in here becomes a gum-like substance. Now provider says if I have everything up near melting point before adding tren the gum like substance won't appear or it will go into solution but if this was normal quality tren A...this shouldn't be happening regardless.

 

[Holidaypay]

Your right no heat is needed it helps speed the process but isn't required an sounds exactly like what happend to me an everyone said they feel it is impurities sticking to it u can heat an stir a lot an some will disappear but it won't completely go away then take the out everything but the sludge an filter twice that's the best chance at saving anything out of it

 

[Holidaypay]

Mine came out good after taking everything besides the sludge an filtering multiple times so it won't be a total loss if you decide to try to save it I haven't had any infections and almost coughed to death a couple times

 

[Dr JIM]

This is how I started - it fully dissolved in solvent ............

I just want to confirm that if it's good tren a there shouldn't NEED to be any heat or at least not absolutely required significant heat (100mg/ml safflower oil with 2% BA and 18%BB) which is exactly the case with same components and ratios making 250mg/ml Test E, 200mg/ml Nand D, and 200mg/ml masteron e. Nothing there turned to sticky sludge and until recently I haven't heard of this happening with Tren A.

Working with fina pellets, which we can assume to be quality US vet grade tren, heat was not required whatsoever to get into solution as long as one used decent BB levels and no one ever got the sludge issue which has turned up.

This isn't just "cloudy tren", something in here becomes a gum-like substance. Now provider says if I have everything up near melting point before adding tren the gum like substance won't appear or it will go into solution but if this was normal quality tren A...this shouldn't be happening regardless.

“Fully dissolved in solvent” ....

What solvent ??

Although water soluble most if not all pellets contain a certain degree of contaminantion ranging from buffers, surfactants to excipients.

I understand what your experiencieing is NOT precipitation
but mentioned it as an example of what may happen bc of insoluble contamination.

A sludge end result almost always
is the result of gross contamination OR a redux reaction
due to gross overheating

In the latter instance the end result is NOT Tren at all.

Unless the brew was smoking a contaminated Tren product is highly suspect.

 

[Dr JIM]

I suspect most suppliers know heat improves solubility of any oil based RAW but it also can enhance/disguise the solubility of impurities.

 

[Monstar]

Sorry.- meant bb/BA not solvent.

Source offered to remedy at reduced cost but my buddy wants nothing to do with contanminated product. No interested in salvaging "something" out of it despite it working and not causing infection. Would rather take the write off and move on. Recommendation from source for high heat is to get whatever else into solution too. Maybe that's excessive non estrified tren or not but this isn't normal for good TA raw. Shit shouldn't be ruining beakers nor require major heat.

 

[Holidaypay]

Sorry.- meant bb/BA not solvent.

Source offered to remedy at reduced cost but my buddy wants nothing to do with contanminated product. No interested in salvaging "something" out of it despite it working and not causing infection. Would rather take the write off and move on. Recommendation from source for high heat is to get whatever else into solution too. Maybe that's excessive non estrified tren or not but this isn't normal for good TA raw. Shit shouldn't be ruining beakers nor require major heat.

Lol I had 2 toss 4 of my beakers that shit never comes out

 

[Robfromga]

You need some amount of BB for tren. I've brewed tren a at 15%. I'm not sure how low you can take it. And you don't need heat. You can heat it, I wouldn't go much over 150-170°.

If you did everything right, and didn't cook the shit out it, it's nasty raws .

 

[Robfromga]

Tren is a shitty thing for a newb to run but it's great for learning how to brew .

 

[Monstar]

You need some amount of BB for tren. I've brewed tren a at 15%. I'm not sure how low you can take it. And you don't need heat. You can heat it, I wouldn't go much over 150-170°.

If you did everything right, and didn't cook the shit out it, it's nasty raws .

This was 18% BB. It went immediately to gum in the beaker at room temp and again when it was tried at ~120F or a fraction above. All components successfully made other compounds and tried two different safflower oils USP and grocery bought.

Source is suggesting that Tren A, due to manufacturing process INHERENT in Tren A, is very different and MUST be heated to near melting point. This is roughly 200F.

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy as hell or had missed something.

 

[Robfromga]

This was 18% BB. It went immediately to gum in the beaker at room temp and again when it was tried at ~120F or a fraction above. All components successfully made other compounds and tried two different safflower oils USP and grocery bought.

Source is suggesting that Tren A, due to manufacturing process INHERENT in Tren A, is very different and MUST be heated to near melting point. This is roughly 200F.

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy as hell or had missed something.

No . You don't need heat to brew tren ace. And 18% bb is plenty .

 

[Dr JIM]

Sorry.- meant bb/BA not solvent.

Source offered to remedy at reduced cost but my buddy wants nothing to do with contanminated product. No interested in salvaging "something" out of it despite it working and not causing infection.
.

Im only refering to chemical causes of “contamination” since proper filtering will remove
bacterial and even viral infectious sources.

Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

This was 18% BB. It went immediately to gum in the beaker at room temp and again when it was tried at ~120F or a fraction above. All components successfully made other compounds and tried two different safflower oils USP and grocery bought.

Source is suggesting that Tren A, due to manufacturing process INHERENT in Tren A, is very different and MUST be heated to near melting point. This is roughly 200F.

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy as hell or had missed something.

standard lab practice would be to dissolve the solute AAS into the primary solvent oil before the addition of any additives such as B.B. or BA.