New dude, old joints

[Tdeck81]

Thanks for having me. I’ve been enjoying your forums for a couple weeks now and trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can. I also greatly appreciate the over 40 forum, inspiring to know there are many guys out there in the same boat.

I’m almost 44, with significant joint issues. I’ve had a 3 level cervical fusion, lingering neuropathy, and multiple shoulder procedures, worn/missing cartilage, over the past decade that kept me sidelined. My health has stabilized and I decided to start living again. I’m currently 5’10 230 lbs and dropping. Finally got myself in a nice training routine with a consistent diet. I’m proud of my progress so far but hopefully it’s just the beginning.

The only “supplement” I’ve ever utilized is creatine so I understand I have a lot to learn. I’m not in competition with anyone, but myself, and respect the time, effort, discipline and commitment that goes into this lifestyle.

Ultimately I’m interested in safely reducing joint inflammation and increasing energy levels so it becomes less of an impediment. I look forward to sharing my journey with you.

 

[Country Club Hero]

Sounds like you are planning on using steroids to me.

 

[Tdeck81]

Sounds like you are planning on using steroids to me.

Hello. Perhaps? I am currently researching if it would even be beneficial for me. My first concern is not doing further joint damage. Between the forum and personal experience of members I’m hoping to make any educated decision.

 

[Ghoul]

Hello. Perhaps? I am currently researching if it would even be beneficial for me. My first concern is not doing further joint damage. Between the forum and personal experience of members I’m hoping to make any educated decision.

If you're not on a GLP, that'll not only bolster your weight loss, which will be the single most helpful thing for your joints, and reduce systemic inflammation, further protecting your joints and improving your sense of well being.

If you're interested, you can check and address your Test levels with TRT, since age, weight, sedentary lifestyle from injuries, and stress from health woes have likely taken their toll on it, and getting it back up will accelerate your recovery.

 

[Grey Spartan]

Hello. Perhaps? I am currently researching if it would even be beneficial for me. My first concern is not doing further joint damage. Between the forum and personal experience of members I’m hoping to make any educated decision.

Sounds like your on the right track brother keep up the great work. Make sure you research, GLP-1, HGH, TRT, and Nandrolone Decanoate (for your joints).

 

[Tdeck81]

If you're not on a GLP, that'll not only bolster your weight loss, which will be the single most helpful thing for your joints, and reduce systemic inflammation, further protecting your joints and improving your sense of well being.

If you're interested, you can check and address your Test levels with TRT, since age, weight, sedentary lifestyle from injuries, and stress from health woes have likely taken their toll on it, and getting it back up will accelerate your recovery.

Thanks

 

[Tdeck81]

Sounds like your on the right track brother keep up the great work. Make sure you research, GLP-1, HGH, TRT, and Nandrolone Decanoate (for your joints).

Thanks

 

[Sickxlost]

Thanks for having me. I’ve been enjoying your forums for a couple weeks now and trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can. I also greatly appreciate the over 40 forum, inspiring to know there are many guys out there in the same boat.

I’m almost 44, with significant joint issues. I’ve had a 3 level cervical fusion, lingering neuropathy, and multiple shoulder procedures, worn/missing cartilage, over the past decade that kept me sidelined. My health has stabilized and I decided to start living again. I’m currently 5’10 230 lbs and dropping. Finally got myself in a nice training routine with a consistent diet. I’m proud of my progress so far but hopefully it’s just the beginning.

The only “supplement” I’ve ever utilized is creatine so I understand I have a lot to learn. I’m not in competition with anyone, but myself, and respect the time, effort, discipline and commitment that goes into this lifestyle.

Ultimately I’m interested in safely reducing joint inflammation and increasing energy levels so it becomes less of an impediment. I look forward to sharing my journey with you.

At quick glance, have you looked into BPC or TB or even deca for joints?

 

[Tdeck81]

At quick glance, have you looked into BPC or TB or even deca for joints?

For joint health I keep stumbling upon deca and it’s ability to help “lubricate” joints. So low dose deca and a test boost was my first area of interest. I keep seeing conflicting information regarding Hgh and its efficacy for joint inflammation. Forgive my ignorance but I’m not familiar with BPC and TB.

 

[Sickxlost]

For joint health I keep stumbling upon deca and it’s ability to help “lubricate” joints. So low dose deca and a test boost was my first area of interest. I keep seeing conflicting information regarding Hgh and its efficacy for joint inflammation. Forgive my ignorance but I’m not familiar with BPC and TB.

Nah brother you’re good. Thats what this place is for, to ask questions and learn from the guys that have experimented on themselves.

Deca is great for lube on the joints. It comes with some sides being in the 19-nor family so start low for a few weeks and see how you feel then slowly go up. Usually takes 2 weeks to fully kick in. So if you make adjustments wait another 2 weeks and so on.

BPC-157 and TB-500 are healing peptides. Often sold together. Do a quick google search on those. They are hugely beneficial my man.

 

[thejumpingsheep]

Sounds like you are going in the right direction. Im a few years older with shoulder, knee and ankle issues. I am still experimenting but I have tried HGH, BPC, TB500, Tirz/Reta/Sema, and Testosterone.

For me personally, the one that nearly healed my knee pain entirely was... Testosterone.... How you ask?

In my case, I have "undetectable" levels of Estrogen. Go look up what low levels of Estrogen does to joints and ligaments.

So in my case, taking 250mg of Test-C, pushed my E2 levels to about 50 due to aromatization. When this happened, all my joint knee and ankle issues miraculously disappeared. I mean my knees felt like I was 25 again... I could squat and play catcher like it was nothing and I could leg press deep at almost any foot position. Prior, I couldnt even leg press 400lbs without feeling something in the knees and I would get lingering soreness and pain for 3-5 days after. When my E2 is up, I can go over 800lbs with nothing more than a little pressure felt and absolutely no soreness or anything after.

So that was the biggest one for me. I did do other stuff prior like BPC157/TB500/HGH but they really didnt do much for my knees or ankle. Those did fix my shoulders but those have partial tears (for over a decade and doctors couldnt help).

I had been on GLP blockers for about a year without noticing much in terms of inflamation reduction. It does however work for my wife who has early carpel tunnel like symptoms in her hands. It works wonders for her even on super low dose of 3mg/wk. In her case, BPC/TB also work without Tirzeptide.

One warning about HGH, for my wife, it made her carpel tunnel worse. I never noticed it making anything worse for me personally so obviously results will vary.

Finally, Deca sounds great but note if you have never been on roids, its going to be a while before you jump into that. Most will recommend you do a Test only cycle to figure out your body and how it reacts to both that, and related PCT drugs. Thats where I am now. Just finished my 1st Test-C cycle. Now its 3 months off and then ill try Test/Deca. Do know the dangers of Deca before you take it. It has some impact on brain chemistry.

In other words, it might be a good 4-6 months before you should try Deca if you follow recommended guidelines for safety.

 

[Tdeck81]

Sounds like you are going in the right direction. Im a few years older with shoulder, knee and ankle issues. I am still experimenting but I have tried HGH, BPC, TB500, Tirz/Reta/Sema, and Testosterone.

For me personally, the one that nearly healed my knee pain entirely was... Testosterone.... How you ask?

In my case, I have "undetectable" levels of Estrogen. Go look up what low levels of Estrogen does to joints and ligaments.

So in my case, taking 250mg of Test-C, pushed my E2 levels to about 50 due to aromatization. When this happened, all my joint knee and ankle issues miraculously disappeared. I mean my knees felt like I was 25 again... I could squat and play catcher like it was nothing and I could leg press deep at almost any foot position. Prior, I couldnt even leg press 400lbs without feeling something in the knees and I would get lingering soreness and pain for 3-5 days after. When my E2 is up, I can go over 800lbs with nothing more than a little pressure felt and absolutely no soreness or anything after.

So that was the biggest one for me. I did do other stuff prior like BPC157/TB500/HGH but they really didnt do much for my knees or ankle. Those did fix my shoulders but those have partial tears (for over a decade and doctors couldnt help).

I had been on GLP blockers for about a year without noticing much in terms of inflamation reduction. It does however work for my wife who has early carpel tunnel like symptoms in her hands. It works wonders for her even on super low dose of 3mg/wk. In her case, BPC/TB also work without Tirzeptide.

One warning about HGH, for my wife, it made her carpel tunnel worse. I never noticed it making anything worse for me personally so obviously results will vary.

Finally, Deca sounds great but note if you have never been on roids, its going to be a while before you jump into that. Most will recommend you do a Test only cycle to figure out your body and how it reacts to both that, and related PCT drugs. Thats where I am now. Just finished my 1st Test-C cycle. Now its 3 months off and then ill try Test/Deca. Do know the dangers of Deca before you take it. It has some impact on brain chemistry.

In other words, it might be a good 4-6 months before you should try Deca if you follow recommended guidelines for safety.

Thanks man, I really appreciate it. This is exactly the type of relatable insight/experience I’ve been looking for. I know everyone metabolizes “everything” differently so I’ve been piecing together a lot of different info to observe “trends”. It can be overwhelming to find a place to start, but I’m in no rush.

Your “program” seems to be the general consensus on the conservative start I’m interested in. In regards to initial blood testing is there a certain protocol to ask for? Not sure if most people use a G.P. or Endocrinologist? I just recently had some done to rule out underlying autoimmune issues but am unsure exactly what to have checked.

On my end, I’ve tried cortizone, hyaluronic acid, and prp injections in my shoulder. I’m basically bone on bone in spots but too young for a replacement, that I don’t want right now anyway. Also suffering with aching joints from the hips down.

You gave me a lot to absorb and until a few days ago I didn’t know anything about the different peptides that are currently being used. So needless to say, I have some reading to do. Thanks again

 

[Tdeck81]

Sounds like you are going in the right direction. Im a few years older with shoulder, knee and ankle issues. I am still experimenting but I have tried HGH, BPC, TB500, Tirz/Reta/Sema, and Testosterone.

For me personally, the one that nearly healed my knee pain entirely was... Testosterone.... How you ask?

In my case, I have "undetectable" levels of Estrogen. Go look up what low levels of Estrogen does to joints and ligaments.

So in my case, taking 250mg of Test-C, pushed my E2 levels to about 50 due to aromatization. When this happened, all my joint knee and ankle issues miraculously disappeared. I mean my knees felt like I was 25 again... I could squat and play catcher like it was nothing and I could leg press deep at almost any foot position. Prior, I couldnt even leg press 400lbs without feeling something in the knees and I would get lingering soreness and pain for 3-5 days after. When my E2 is up, I can go over 800lbs with nothing more than a little pressure felt and absolutely no soreness or anything after.

So that was the biggest one for me. I did do other stuff prior like BPC157/TB500/HGH but they really didnt do much for my knees or ankle. Those did fix my shoulders but those have partial tears (for over a decade and doctors couldnt help).

I had been on GLP blockers for about a year without noticing much in terms of inflamation reduction. It does however work for my wife who has early carpel tunnel like symptoms in her hands. It works wonders for her even on super low dose of 3mg/wk. In her case, BPC/TB also work without Tirzeptide.

One warning about HGH, for my wife, it made her carpel tunnel worse. I never noticed it making anything worse for me personally so obviously results will vary.

Finally, Deca sounds great but note if you have never been on roids, its going to be a while before you jump into that. Most will recommend you do a Test only cycle to figure out your body and how it reacts to both that, and related PCT drugs. Thats where I am now. Just finished my 1st Test-C cycle. Now its 3 months off and then ill try Test/Deca. Do know the dangers of Deca before you take it. It has some impact on brain chemistry.

In other words, it might be a good 4-6 months before you should try Deca if you follow recommended guidelines for safety.

I just saw the forum has a whole section dedicated to blood work. Looks like I have some more light reading today

 

[thejumpingsheep]

Thanks man, I really appreciate it. This is exactly the type of relatable insight/experience I’ve been looking for. I know everyone metabolizes “everything” differently so I’ve been piecing together a lot of different info to observe “trends”. It can be overwhelming to find a place to start, but I’m in no rush.

Your “program” seems to be the general consensus on the conservative start I’m interested in. In regards to initial blood testing is there a certain protocol to ask for? Not sure if most people use a G.P. or Endocrinologist? I just recently had some done to rule out underlying autoimmune issues but am unsure exactly what to have checked.

On my end, I’ve tried cortizone, hyaluronic acid, and prp injections in my shoulder. I’m basically bone on bone in spots but too young for a replacement, that I don’t want right now anyway. Also suffering with aching joints from the hips down.

You gave me a lot to absorb and until a few days ago I didn’t know anything about the different peptides that are currently being used. So needless to say, I have some reading to do. Thanks again

Definitely learn about blood tests because ultimately, its the only real way to get any sort of analytical data on what you are doing to your body. Going by "feel" is not a great way to make decisions. Expect to do a lot of blood testing so learn how to get them.

Mind you im no expert but here we go:

When I started, I asked my general physician for tests for no other reason than "I am old and I feel tired all the time" and I claimed I wanted to get a baseline on everything. My doctor was more than happy to give them to me along side the normal yearly stuff but I did have to specify. So first check your records to see what you have done and the cross reference with the following list:

Tests that you should get familiar with:

General Stuff
------------------------------------
Comprehensive Metabolic
Vitamin D
CBC w/differential

Thyroid Related
-------------------
TSH
T4 Free

Liver & Lipids Related
-----------------------------------------------
Lipid Panel (including HDL, LDL)
ApoB
ApoA1
C-Reactive (CRP) Protein

Growth Hormone Related
-----------------------------------
IGF-1 (better than HGH)
HGH

Sex Hormone Related
---------------------------------
Estradiol E2
Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
SHBG
Prolactin
LH
FSH


So what you do is look at those, see what you have never done and ask for them. If you have a hard ass doctor, maybe even look them up to see what symptoms they cause, and make it sound like you have said symptoms to get the doc to get you the blood tests. My doc didnt need that. He was more than happy to hear that I wanted blood tests to begin with.

Its important to get most of these BEFORE you start taking anything to see how certain things are impacted by your decisions. For instance, if you take HGH, your IGF1 levels will go up. If you do any steroids at all, odds are they will impact near everything on the list above. You want to be careful not to get into dangerous levels.

That said some compounds may or may not impact anything in you. For example, stuff that didnt impact anything for me include BCP157/TB500/GHK-cu. But switch to my wife, and GHK-cu played havoc on her. Luckily we started at super low doses so no major sides happened but as it turns out and what we learned, was that she has a copper allergy. We had no idea till we started testing this stuff ourselves. She had to tell this to her to doctors because guess what? Some birth control has copper so that would have been disasterous had she been perscribed that. Luckily it never happened but the point here, and why everyone recommends doing your own bloods, is that the doctors didnt figure it out either... dont be too dependent on them especially on this journey.

So how do folks here get tests without a doctor? In the US a popular membership based service around the body building forums is Fitomics. You get that, and they get group discount on blood tests. Something like a E2 Sensitive test is like $30-$40 instead of $80 normally. Its not always the cheapest, and it does cost money to join, so you will need to do some research to see if they can beat the prices of a plain website service like www.privatemdlabs.com.

 

[Tdeck81]

Definitely learn about blood tests because ultimately, its the only real way to get any sort of analytical data on what you are doing to your body. Going by "feel" is not a great way to make decisions. Expect to do a lot of blood testing so learn how to get them.

Mind you im no expert but here we go:

When I started, I asked my general physician for tests for no other reason than "I am old and I feel tired all the time" and I claimed I wanted to get a baseline on everything. My doctor was more than happy to give them to me along side the normal yearly stuff but I did have to specify. So first check your records to see what you have done and the cross reference with the following list:

Tests that you should get familiar with:

General Stuff
------------------------------------
Comprehensive Metabolic
Vitamin D
CBC w/differential

Thyroid Related
-------------------
TSH
T4 Free

Liver & Lipids Related
-----------------------------------------------
Lipid Panel (including HDL, LDL)
ApoB
ApoA1
C-Reactive (CRP) Protein

Growth Hormone Related
-----------------------------------
IGF-1 (better than HGH)
HGH

Sex Hormone Related
---------------------------------
Estradiol E2
Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
SHBG
Prolactin
LH
FSH


So what you do is look at those, see what you have never done and ask for them. If you have a hard ass doctor, maybe even look them up to see what symptoms they cause, and make it sound like you have said symptoms to get the doc to get you the blood tests. My doc didnt need that. He was more than happy to hear that I wanted blood tests to begin with.

Its important to get most of these BEFORE you start taking anything to see how certain things are impacted by your decisions. For instance, if you take HGH, your IGF1 levels will go up. If you do any steroids at all, odds are they will impact near everything on the list above. You want to be careful not to get into dangerous levels.

That said some compounds may or may not impact anything in you. For example, stuff that didnt impact anything for me include BCP157/TB500/GHK-cu. But switch to my wife, and GHK-cu played havoc on her. Luckily we started at super low doses so no major sides happened but as it turns out and what we learned, was that she has a copper allergy. We had no idea till we started testing this stuff ourselves. She had to tell this to her to doctors because guess what? Some birth control has copper so that would have been disasterous had she been perscribed that. Luckily it never happened but the point here, and why everyone recommends doing your own bloods, is that the doctors didnt figure it out either... dont be too dependent on them especially on this journey.

So how do folks here get tests without a doctor? In the US a popular membership based service around the body building forums is Fitomics. You get that, and they get group discount on blood tests. Something like a E2 Sensitive test is like $30-$40 instead of $80 normally. Its not always the cheapest, and it does cost money to join, so you will need to do some research to see if they can beat the prices of a plain website service like www.privatemdlabs.com.

Thanks for the detailed descriptions and categorization. I was having trouble finding a definitive list on the bloodwork threads, so I’ve been back and forth between here, google, and Reddit. Do you happen to know of a solid alternative source of info? I’m currently watching Dr. Todd Lee’s YouTube videos in addition to reading here.

As far as blood work, it appears I’m mainly missing the growth and sex hormone testing. Thanks again for all the help. and I’m sure I’ll back with a ton of questions.

 

[thejumpingsheep]

Thanks for the detailed descriptions and categorization. I was having trouble finding a definitive list on the bloodwork threads, so I’ve been back and forth between here, google, and Reddit. Do you happen to know of a solid alternative source of info? I’m currently watching Dr. Todd Lee’s YouTube videos in addition to reading here.

As far as blood work, it appears I’m mainly missing the growth and sex hormone testing. Thanks again for all the help. and I’m sure I’ll back with a ton of questions.

The data is largely disjoint. Not sure you can find everything in one place. But honestly its not that hard. Its a do it once and you got it for life sort of thing. Scour the forums, go online, ask AI, whatever, just verify and if you cant, survey everywhere for anecdotal reports. Lots of them here.

In your case get an E2 sensitive test asap to see if that isnt stupid low like mine. If it is then that might be impacting your joints/ligaments.

After E2 I would learn about the silent killer (heart attacks) and related tests. Cholesterol and blood pressure are critical. Keep those two in check and if anything gets you out of range, correct it ASAP.

So get used to the lipid panel and ApoB and prepare to take this test several times a year, likely whenever you introduce a new drug that has impact on said condition. The good news is lipid panel is like $10. ApoB is a more but you probably dont need that as often especially if it checks out ok even when the other 2 are out of range (which seems to be common but its wise to check). Odds are you will correct the other 2 anyway, which will simply make it more likely for ApoB to be normal.

Get yourself a good blood pressure device. Keep track of BP especially when you introduce new things. I use a spreadsheet myself. I have columns for every drug I take as well as BP, body measures, BF% calculations (or get a device) and weight. I record all quantities of meds every day, but I dont do all the other stuff every day except for BP since its easy enough.

Other stuff to consider investing in:

If you dont already have it, get a good activity tracker and use a good calorie/macro tracker. I use an Amazfit Balance watch (tried many many devices and this was the best of the bunch, even compared to expensive $500+ watches due to awesome battery and good integrations) and I use Cronometer though I have to be honest, I am looking to ditch it, but there arent many great options. YMMV.

Start tracking everything you can. Over time you will learn what is and isnt so important but you will be glad that you started tracking early. Food, meds, activity, sleep, blood tests, etc.

 

[Tdeck81]

The data is largely disjoint. Not sure you can find everything in one place. But honestly its not that hard. Its a do it once and you got it for life sort of thing. Scour the forums, go online, ask AI, whatever, just verify and if you cant, survey everywhere for anecdotal reports. Lots of them here.

In your case get an E2 sensitive test asap to see if that isnt stupid low like mine. If it is then that might be impacting your joints/ligaments.

After E2 I would learn about the silent killer (heart attacks) and related tests. Cholesterol and blood pressure are critical. Keep those two in check and if anything gets you out of range, correct it ASAP.

So get used to the lipid panel and ApoB and prepare to take this test several times a year, likely whenever you introduce a new drug that has impact on said condition. The good news is lipid panel is like $10. ApoB is a more but you probably dont need that as often especially if it checks out ok even when the other 2 are out of range (which seems to be common but its wise to check). Odds are you will correct the other 2 anyway, which will simply make it more likely for ApoB to be normal.

Get yourself a good blood pressure device. Keep track of BP especially when you introduce new things. I use a spreadsheet myself. I have columns for every drug I take as well as BP, body measures, BF% calculations (or get a device) and weight. I record all quantities of meds every day, but I dont do all the other stuff every day except for BP since its easy enough.

Other stuff to consider investing in:

If you dont already have it, get a good activity tracker and use a good calorie/macro tracker. I use an Amazfit Balance watch (tried many many devices and this was the best of the bunch, even compared to expensive $500+ watches due to awesome battery and good integrations) and I use Cronometer though I have to be honest, I am looking to ditch it, but there arent many great options. YMMV.

Start tracking everything you can. Over time you will learn what is and isnt so important but you will be glad that you started tracking early. Food, meds, activity, sleep, blood tests, etc.

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I’m heading in the right direction, but just want to ensure I’m not missing anything critical. Figured if I’m going to do it, do the prep work and do it right.

Thanks again for all your help

 

[readalot]

A belated welcome to MESO...Welcome!!