New guy, new cycle

[BiochemicalAbomination14]

Ok, so I am a new guy here and I am going to start a new cycle after some months off-time. Everyone feel free to critique my plans. By the way, I will only post 12 week increments, as it will be tedious for the whole year


Goals: pack on as much muscle, and bulk for 6-7 months, then get shredded to ribbons in months 8 to 9; show next year.. I will adjust as needed throughout, but this is what I'm thinking:

Week 1-4
Test E - 600mg
Test P - 150mg
Deca - 500mg
NPP - 150mg
IGF-1 LR3 - 10mcg/ed (will follow palumbo protocol)

Week 5-8
Test E - 800mg
Test P - 200mg
Deca - 750mg
Oral winny @ 50mg/ed (I need to cut a bit at onset of this year)
IGF-1 LR3 - after 2 weeks off, 10mcg/ed

Week 9-12
Test E - 1000mg
Test P - 250mg
Deca - 1000mg
Oral Winny - 50mg/ed
Masteron - 400mg

Nolvadex and Aromasin as needed.
*Dosages may vary based on lab I get from

I would run GH too, but looks like I won't have the funds as of now, nor a reliable source. Now just to acquire the gear, and get started.

 

[azazul]

damn dude, thats alot of drugs, please tell me this is not your fist cycle?

 

[ChaseQ]

He did say 'new' cycle, making me think it's not his first.

Why the test E and P?

And igf...well I think it's a waste in the cycle. Might be a waste completely.

And winny with deca???

I'm starting to think you are way over thinking it or just trying to use up a bunch of shit you got laying around.

 

[luckyduck]

Welcome.. And Damn!!! I Dont even know how to respond to all of that different gear your trying to run. Best thing i can say to ya is Good Night....

 

[ChaseQ]

Agreed Lucky!

Hey BA, how about we start with some current stats and cycle background?

Then we can get to some of these wack compound combos and dosing schedules youve put together bro.

Just real quick, more isn't always better and have you researched any of these compounds and how they work? If you do you should quickly see that your grab basket approach probably won't give you the results you're looking for but you should end up with some fucked up side effects! lol

 

[BiochemicalAbomination14]

He did say 'new' cycle, making me think it's not his first.

Why the test E and P?

And igf...well I think it's a waste in the cycle. Might be a waste completely.

And winny with deca???

I'm starting to think you are way over thinking it or just trying to use up a bunch of shit you got laying around.

First, I want to thank you guys for responding to me, I did open myself up to it so any comments or criticisms were/are welcome. This is not my first cycle, no, sorry I neglected to mention. I have been off for about 3 months, but was on for 9 before this. I have traditionally kept it simple in the past, running the basic compounds - test, deca (have used hgh and igf-1 lr3 before, but not in last year). This year I want to shake things up and see what I can do to really alter my body composition. I can't give too much away, because anonymity is golden on here. I won't reveal my age, but I'm no young buck 20 something, and I'm no grizzled old vet either. Probably the average age of most guys who've been bodybuilding for a bit . I am around 5'4" and 205 lbs currently, bf a bit high, I would guess 20% though haven't tested lately.

So as a note, I have revised the first 12 weeks, and I've dropped the oral winny altogether and added anadrol @ 50mg/ed for weeks 1-4. I'm going to stick to a solid bulking scheme the first 8 weeks, then begin to harden up around week 9, and transition more to a cut to get rid of a large portion of excess bodyfat weeks 12-24. Reason being my joints need the relief, so don't want to start cutting off the bat. But I do want to cut some excess bf before I settle into a mass season.

Okay, so the questions:
Why Test E and Test P? I don't want to sound condescending, you guys seem like vets on this board and likely know your shit, so excuse my answer. I am going to run the prop with enanthate to get my test levels elevated rapidly and thus achieve quicker results to kick off the year. I am going to continue to run it for 12 weeks total to keep total levels high, think of it as if it was a custom sustanon (which I know some guys do with custom blends, etc.).

IGF1-LR3 - I have used in the past, but recent research suggests I did it incorrectly, so I'm going to do it again only using a different protocol. I do feel I got results last time, so hoping for better return this time. At the very least if it's real, it should increase insulin sensitivity post w/o. In case anyone doesn't realize, this is the hormone that does the muscle hypertrophy while on HGH. HGH stimulates IGF1 production. At less than a hundred USD, good for a whole cycle I don't mind.

Why winny and deca? They are both very different compounds, for specific purposes. I have actually revised my first 12 weeks, which I mention above, however, I still might run this combo later in the year. A compound like EQ or Deca is good for your joints, while winny is not.. winny is good for cutting, you can use Deca or EQ for both cutting and bulking. I'm hoping this will even out any joint issues from the winny. Current plan is to run EQ, Test Cyp and the other cutting agents weeks 13-24.

I have researched compounds, I ended up with a degree in molecular biology to go along with my curiosity years ago. Oh, and I will be getting blood-work for health and validity of gear reasons, throughout the year that I may share with the community.

I hope I answered everything I could, any spirited conversation is appreciated. I appreciate the feedback either way!

 

[BiochemicalAbomination14]

This might help age me a bit, I was relatively young when I was a member, but I used to be a regular on some of the older boards such as Triedia and a few others around at the time. I lurked meso backed then. Just wanted to mention, I haven't been active on boards in a while, but meso has withstood the test of time so I figured I would start contributing. I do miss the comradarie. Not only that, but how one acquires gear has radically changed over the last 10-15 years!

 

[beezil]

BA,
why the NPP and the deca together???

unless you are thinking along the same lines as your test p and E approach.

but even that... once you get your levels up and steady... you won't need the short ester till you come off cycle....

just my .02...

i would start with P then transition to E and back to P... then follow with PCT.

probably the same with the NPP and Deca.

difference here is... the half life of Deca is too long for my liking. I would probably only use the NPP throughout the cycle. i actually have been toying with giving it a go.

by the way... good to have you back around; old timer.

 

[BiochemicalAbomination14]

BA,
why the NPP and the deca together???

unless you are thinking along the same lines as your test p and E approach.

but even that... once you get your levels up and steady... you won't need the short ester till you come off cycle....

just my .02...

i would start with P then transition to E and back to P... then follow with PCT.

probably the same with the NPP and Deca.

difference here is... the half life of Deca is too long for my liking. I would probably only use the NPP throughout the cycle. i actually have been toying with giving it a go.

by the way... good to have you back around; old timer.

Hehe, thanks brother. I don't think I count as an old timer yet though!

I see where your head is at, and you are correct. I'm using the NPP in the same way as the Test P. I want the effect of the Deca to hit me sooner than 4 weeks:drooling:. I've never used NPP before either, so part experiment as well. I would do the taper as you suggest, running the short ester at the end, but I won't be coming off anything anywhere in the next 6 months so not an issue. When I do give my system 2-3 months to clear in the end, that will be a great way to transition though. Thanks for the input, and the welcome even though you are probably picturing me with a cane and depends...[)]

 

[pittbox]

Your lean body mass is estimated at 165lbs and you are running grams of gear.

 

[tubesox]

First, I want to thank you guys for responding to me, I did open myself up to it so any comments or criticisms were/are welcome. This is not my first cycle, no, sorry I neglected to mention. I have been off for about 3 months, but was on for 9 before this. I have traditionally kept it simple in the past, running the basic compounds - test, deca (have used hgh and igf-1 lr3 before, but not in last year). This year I want to shake things up and see what I can do to really alter my body composition. I can't give too much away, because anonymity is golden on here. I won't reveal my age, but I'm no young buck 20 something, and I'm no grizzled old vet either. Probably the average age of most guys who've been bodybuilding for a bit . I am around 5'4" and 205 lbs currently, bf a bit high, I would guess 20% though haven't tested lately.

So as a note, I have revised the first 12 weeks, and I've dropped the oral winny altogether and added anadrol @ 50mg/ed for weeks 1-4. I'm going to stick to a solid bulking scheme the first 8 weeks, then begin to harden up around week 9, and transition more to a cut to get rid of a large portion of excess bodyfat weeks 12-24. Reason being my joints need the relief, so don't want to start cutting off the bat. But I do want to cut some excess bf before I settle into a mass season.

Okay, so the questions:
Why Test E and Test P? I don't want to sound condescending, you guys seem like vets on this board and likely know your shit, so excuse my answer. I am going to run the prop with enanthate to get my test levels elevated rapidly and thus achieve quicker results to kick off the year. I am going to continue to run it for 12 weeks total to keep total levels high, think of it as if it was a custom sustanon (which I know some guys do with custom blends, etc.).

IGF1-LR3 - I have used in the past, but recent research suggests I did it incorrectly, so I'm going to do it again only using a different protocol. I do feel I got results last time, so hoping for better return this time. At the very least if it's real, it should increase insulin sensitivity post w/o. In case anyone doesn't realize, this is the hormone that does the muscle hypertrophy while on HGH. HGH stimulates IGF1 production. At less than a hundred USD, good for a whole cycle I don't mind.

Why winny and deca? They are both very different compounds, for specific purposes. I have actually revised my first 12 weeks, which I mention above, however, I still might run this combo later in the year. A compound like EQ or Deca is good for your joints, while winny is not.. winny is good for cutting, you can use Deca or EQ for both cutting and bulking. I'm hoping this will even out any joint issues from the winny. Current plan is to run EQ, Test Cyp and the other cutting agents weeks 13-24.

I have researched compounds, I ended up with a degree in molecular biology to go along with my curiosity years ago. Oh, and I will be getting blood-work for health and validity of gear reasons, throughout the year that I may share with the community.

I hope I answered everything I could, any spirited conversation is appreciated. I appreciate the feedback either way!

you were on a 9 month cycle?

 

[beezil]

Hehe, thanks brother. I don't think I count as an old timer yet though!

I see where your head is at, and you are correct. I'm using the NPP in the same way as the Test P. I want the effect of the Deca to hit me sooner than 4 weeks:drooling:. I've never used NPP before either, so part experiment as well. I would do the taper as you suggest, running the short ester at the end, but I won't be coming off anything anywhere in the next 6 months so not an issue. When I do give my system 2-3 months to clear in the end, that will be a great way to transition though. Thanks for the input, and the welcome even though you are probably picturing me with a cane and depends...[)]

if you are going to run your cycle that long... running short esters congruent with long still doesn't make sense. or... it would be a waste of gear and money.
not too mention the amount of injects (possible scar tissue)... i run prop exclusive in my cycles and inject everyday... others say EOD... it just works better for me ED; steadier levels and no bloat.

I think you said you were dropping the winni... that was my other suggestion. wait till before your show to mess with that. I hate it... kills my shoulders, hips, and knees. Although, my wife loves it right before her shows.

old timer = you have been around awhile.

I'm 40. my wife just went to the store to get some protein... i told her to stop at walmart and get me some adult diapers.

 

[azazul]

I don't want to be a downer on your cycle bro, im not all that experienced myself but I have done a piss load of research for several years on the subject because I find it super interesting.
I think you may want to rethink your dosage there on the high end and drop the short esters, its just more chemical in your body that is not even needed. where

I realize what you are trying to accomplish, but your hormone levels will be all over the place, like a roller coaster that is climbing peaks and valleys when using the short esters on top of the long, and furthermore you will have to decrease your dosage on these short esters everyday as the test e and deca builds and frankly unless you do labs every day, your not going to know what is actually going on inside your body.
Have you calculated half lives of test p and npp along with test e and deca to determine how much is going to be building up in your system by using both short and long?

dbol kicker is much safer and less complicated than short esters on top of long..

I understand short esters on the backend of things but not the front.

again no disrespect here, just trying to help you be safe.

 

[beezil]

I don't want to be a downer on your cycle bro, im not all that experienced myself but I have done a piss load of research for several years on the subject because I find it super interesting.
I think you may want to rethink your dosage there on the high end and drop the short esters, its just more chemical in your body that is not even needed. where

I realize what you are trying to accomplish, but your hormone levels will be all over the place, like a roller coaster that is climbing peaks and valleys when using the short esters on top of the long, and furthermore you will have to decrease your dosage on these short esters everyday as the test e and deca builds and frankly unless you do labs every day, your not going to know what is actually going on inside your body.
Have you calculated half lives of test p and npp along with test e and deca to determine how much is going to be building up in your system by using both short and long?

dbol kicker is much safer and less complicated than short esters on top of long..

I understand short esters on the backend of things but not the front.

again no disrespect here, just trying to help you be safe.

you write some good things here that i didn't touch on with BA. more or less, making an assumption that he is already knowledgeable about half-lives and such. I have changed my cycle philosophy because of what you have mentioned... the roller coaster ride makes for more bloating and irritability. This I am extremely sensitive too.

not too mention... he did say he was setting up for a show. Therefore, I have been around other competitors and their beliefs are more is better. Not that I subscribe to that belief. On the contrary, I practice the opposite.

on too my next point... short esters aren't only good on the backend... but transition well on the frontend.

 

[azazul]

on too my next point... short esters aren't only good on the backend... but transition well on the frontend.

Yup I agree with that, only if the person is aware of how it builds due to half life.. a guy could think he is on 500 a week of test when really he is already at 1000 by week 4. I don't know the OP's actual experience but others reading this who don't know about half life could put themselves into a dangerous situation..

anyways sorry for beating the horse dead with a dull rusty shovel
were kinda hijacking this guys log but he did ask for opinions

 

[BiochemicalAbomination14]

if you are going to run your cycle that long... running short esters congruent with long still doesn't make sense. or... it would be a waste of gear and money.
not too mention the amount of injects (possible scar tissue)... i run prop exclusive in my cycles and inject everyday... others say EOD... it just works better for me ED; steadier levels and no bloat.

I think you said you were dropping the winni... that was my other suggestion. wait till before your show to mess with that. I hate it... kills my shoulders, hips, and knees. Although, my wife loves it right before her shows.

old timer = you have been around awhile.

I'm 40. my wife just went to the store to get some protein... i told her to stop at walmart and get me some adult diapers.

I read all posts, just singling yours out because of the diapers

Now I have a few replies, let me try to respond to all the concerns listed and again I appreciate the input:

- So I am a bit thrown off by the consensus that running short esters with long esters isn't worth it. Or that my blood levels will be like a roller coaster. I do understand the concept of half-lives, difference in esters, etc.. So let me put this in context for you. Sustanon is a blend of 4 different esters, short, medium and long. Would taking sustanon be worthless? I am achieving, more or less, the same desired effect. That is, to achieve a rapid rise in testosterone and gradually increasing my dosages to match every 4 weeks, I could do it every 3, but I don't like odd numbers . I will use a dosing protocol that spaces the dosages evenly throughout the week as well. So it looks like this: Week 1-4 I am running 750mg/week of total testosterone and 650mg week of nandrolone. Once I hit week 5, I up my dose to 1g total test and 750mg total nandrolone. I increase again at week 9. By increasing the dose, I’m keeping levels relatively stabilized until I reach a point where I level off for a bit, then yes when I reach a point where I’m on a certain compound at the same dose for 4+ weeks, my levels will hit a “bump” if you will, but then stabilize until I change it again.

- Thing is about running 9-12 month cycles, is that you have to either increase the dosages, change up the compounds or ideally do a combination of the two or you stagnate, same principle as dieting or training. Your body adapts to stimulus, no matter what it is. So no matter what I won't have completely stable blood levels of anything throughout the year.

I did re-consider the winny. I am only going to use that pre-contest, no need to use it before. You guys were right there.

I will respond to the other people's terse comments by respectfully asking them to remember we all have different goals when we go to the gym. It’s 2013, I would have thought the idea of running longer cycles wasn’t so foreign. I’m not trying to get beach ready, or impress a girl, etc...it’s for competition… and not men’s physique where I get to wear board shorts (no offense!); it’s a different ballgame. To each his or her own, I won't judge any of you.

 

[azazul]

well..comparing what you are doing to sust is not really a good comparison..I mean technically ya your right, but the amount of prop you are doing would be like doing 6 amps of sust 250 per week... to equal the amount of prop you are doing..... since there is 30mg of prop in a sust 250 amp.

I would like to see before and after pics if you are going to be doing this much test.. very interested in your progress at these doses.

 

[BiochemicalAbomination14]

well..comparing what you are doing to sust is not really a good comparison..I mean technically ya your right, but the amount of prop you are doing would be like doing 6 amps of sust 250 per week... to equal the amount of prop you are doing..... since there is 30mg of prop in a sust 250 amp.

I would like to see before and after pics if you are going to be doing this much test.. very interested in your progress at these doses.

It is not an exact comparison no, because sus has 4 different esters. I am taking 2. I like to simplify things a bit, plus I love the kick prop gives . The bottom-line is, I'm elevating blood-levels quickly, and slowly climbing. Once I hit weeks 13-24 I'll be at 1.5g of test cyp. I'll post that section around week 10 of this log. Let me get there first ! I know guys will be interested, I will take photos for my own sake, but the only thing I can guarantee is I'll post progress stats for sure.

 

[BiochemicalAbomination14]

Just wanted to do an update on the cycle log, as I have found my "unofficial sponsor" :drooling: for this upcoming 2014 season, and so I subsequently also know exactly what dosages I will be running of each compound and when I'm starting it all.

Here goes the revised schedule:

Weeks 1-4:
Test E - 450mg
Test P - 150mg
Deca - 250mg
NPP - 150mg
Tren A - 50mg/ed
Anadrol - 50mg/ed

Weeks 5 - 8:
Test E - 600mg
Test P - 200mg
Deca - 500mg
Tren A - 50mg/ed (until end of week 6)
Tren E - (Week 6 - 800mg; weeks 7-8 - 600mg)
Masteron E - 400mg (weeks 7-8)
* At week 6 will start IGF-1 LR3 @ 10mcg pwo, running 4 weeks on, 2 off

Weeks 9 - 12:
Test E - 750mg
Test P - 250mg
Deca - 750mg
Tren E - 600mg
Masteron - 400mg


Anyone who took a look at the first one and commented, thanks. You will see I have lowered the dosages from the onset, and switched up some compounds. I will be okay to start a little lighter, gives me more room to build.. plus I have been off for 3 or so months, so it's ok.

I don't think I posted the reasoning behind protocol in the beginning. The idea for the first 12 weeks is to pack on mass, but transition from the sloppy winter recoup season by shedding some fat and seeing where I'm at weight and bf level-wise up until week 18. Then will bulk until august. All that to come later.

Start date in a few weeks, so will post again probably a week into it and do weekly updates or something like that.

 

[azazul]

damn man I would be a mess on that much tren I think, I like the revised plan.